Executive order and Business ties

[mhughes0021]

isn't that exactly the point - he was vetted and he had a green card yet he still tried to kill a bunch of people in the name of Allah. hughes is providing evidence and making the point he's trying to disprove.

No, youre missing the point. The point was he was vetted, checked and approved.....and he decided to commit a crime because he was fed up with the way his people are treated so poorly. Thats not terrorism...and he didnt kill anyone. The fucking guy down in florida was tracked on 2 seperate occassions by the FBI....and they still cant control if he wants to walk into a club and shoot a bunch of people. How is extreme vetting going to keep people from getting here...and then make up their mind later that the US treats arabs like shit, get pissed and go postal. News flash...they cant. OSU guy had no ties to terrorist groups. What exactly are you vetting for? That detained 5 year old was a threat to national security? All those scientists that got sent back.....leme guess, they were plotting to blow up the world? What happened over the weekend was a ridiculous shit show....starting with the countries he chose, the countries he left out and the way he went about communicating and executing his order. Hes a dumbass....and made our country look like complete incompetent idiots.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I'm torn between making a 'drop a ball' joke and trying to think of past examples where something like this has happened.

I think you should go with the joke.

 

[mhughes0021]

1) I think you can separate the intent of the executive order from how it was rolled out. Regardless of whether or not you think the ban is a good idea, how it was rolled out was an inexcusable "cluster-whoopsie" (to borrow a phrase from Kenneth the page from 30 Rock.) It was either enacted this way due to incompetance, or worse, Trump wanted all the trouble/protesting/media coverage, and doesn't care who he screws over as long as it makes headlines.

2) ACA should never have been called "Obamacare". It's not Obama's plan. It's the healthcare insurance companies's plan. You should have zero surprise when Republicans either do an about-face and try to relabel it as their own or dismantle it selectively, leaving the parts the insurance companies want to keep. Or, maybe, now that prices have been jacked up, maybe they can repeal it, as long the the prices stay where they are. Either way, prices aren't going back down.

One of the bigger problems i had with the weekend was trump bitched out. Instead of standing up to the country and explaining his purpose or even apologizing for how unoprganized it was or how poorly it was communicated. He just blamed Obama lol. "obama picked those countries....obama did it." Really you fuck? Youre the president, youre signing the executive order and can have it say whatever the fuck you want......and youre going to tell the world that it was Obamas idea lmao....what a spineless fuck.

 

[tinselwolverine]

This here is funny shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qMowkAQYCw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp61SoyyX2c

 

[tomdalton22]

This here is funny shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qMowkAQYCw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp61SoyyX2c

hilarious

 

[Gulo Blue]

You got a figure someone was going to drop a ball a time or two in the process.

Trump is 70 years old! I wouldn't expect that at all...although it would explain a few things.

 

[Michchamp]

so on a sort-of related note, some white supremacist just shot up a mosque in Quebec, killing 6 worshipers and wounding 8.

the US media's response is... slow to point out the race and political beliefs of the shooter, to put it charitably. Guess it doesn't go with the narrative the WhiteHouse is pushing about who is responsible for terrorism. Fox initially tweeted he was from Morrocco, and never deleted the tweet, which continues to be retweeted around. CNN isn't reporting that the shooter was a white supremacist and fan of Trump on social media at all. (I don't get it... liberals love CNN, right? its a liberal network cause Fox and Breitbart say so.)

 

[tomdalton22]

so on a sort-of related note, some white supremacist just shot up a mosque in Quebec, killing 6 worshipers and wounding 8.

the US media's response is... slow to point out the race and political beliefs of the shooter, to put it charitably. Guess it doesn't go with the narrative the WhiteHouse is pushing about who is responsible for terrorism. Fox initially tweeted he was from Morrocco, and never deleted the tweet, which continues to be retweeted around. CNN isn't reporting that the shooter was a white supremacist and fan of Trump on social media at all. (I don't get it... liberals love CNN, right? its a liberal network cause Fox and Breitbart say so.)

I heard about that this morning. It was first reported that there were two arrested but now they are saying that only one was responsible, the other was a witness. Canadian authorities have not released the name of the shooter.

 

[Michchamp]

I heard about that this morning. It was first reported that there were two arrested but now they are saying that only one was responsible, the other was a witness. Canadian authorities have not released the name of the shooter.

its all over the web... Alexandre Bissonnette, 27

 

[Michchamp]

quebecois media reporting gov't has confirmed it (but in French)... my French is a little rusty though

 

[biggunsbob]

This is the first I have heard he is a white Supremacist . Holy crap wtf is wrong with the media. Tell us the damn truth and stop supporting a side damn it all right or left.

 

[Spartanmack]

The list has nothing to do with countries that he has business ties with and everything to do with the fact that the countries on the list don't have reliable information systems or even information on the identification and backgrounds of people trying to gain entry into the US from those countries. this isn't a problem with Saudi Arabia or the UAE - they're not 3rd world countries with ongoing major conflicts. They're very sophisticated so they have the systems and data needed to vet people and they haven't been embroiled in major conflict where those systems, if they even existed have been compromised or destroyed.

 

[Spartanmack]

No, youre missing the point. The point was he was vetted, checked and approved.....and he decided to commit a crime because he was fed up with the way his people are treated so poorly. Thats not terrorism...and he didnt kill anyone. The fucking guy down in florida was tracked on 2 seperate occassions by the FBI....and they still cant control if he wants to walk into a club and shoot a bunch of people. How is extreme vetting going to keep people from getting here...and then make up their mind later that the US treats arabs like shit, get pissed and go postal. News flash...they cant. OSU guy had no ties to terrorist groups. What exactly are you vetting for? That detained 5 year old was a threat to national security? All those scientists that got sent back.....leme guess, they were plotting to blow up the world? What happened over the weekend was a ridiculous shit show....starting with the countries he chose, the countries he left out and the way he went about communicating and executing his order. Hes a dumbass....and made our country look like complete incompetent idiots.

no, he didn't. He wasn't driven to crime because he was treated so poorly. He has freedom of religion here and the US treats Arabs and every other religious, ethnic or sexual minority better than any country in the world - they're treated better here than where they are religious or ethnic or sexual majorities in their homeland. This argument is completely false.

so if I'm following your nonsensical screed, by your (il)logic, we should just let everyone in, vetted or not because vetting them doesn't work. Or do you even know the point you're trying to make because you're all over the place with this post.

 

[Spartanmack]

I am familiar with the process. it has to be one of the most thorough processes we require on a large scale (avg. of over 1,000,000 people admitted to the US most years going back to 2000, and 100,000s more rejected each year). There is a background check, in person interviews, biometric analysis (fingerprints, & photographs) in each case, as well as requiring and reviewing supporting evidence for each applicant which can be dozens of pages, photos, forms, documents, & records. additionally, there are substantial fees (a few thousand dollars or so for each applicant) involved... which serve as a bar in and of themselves. and for individuals coming from certain nations (ie failed states, particularly ones we bombed into ruin) there is already additional scrutiny and often applicants have to go through multiple interviews and submit additional evidence before they pass muster. so I'm not sure how you think this should be more thorough... unless you want to make it a bigger bureaucracy than it already is. and of course... big government = bad, right?

The cases you're citing involved individuals who became "radicalized" and committed crimes here in the US.

of course, proposing draconian bans and hamfisted regulations to address the statistically miniscule chances of harm happening is un-American, un-Constitutional, and wrong. it's holding a group of people (Muslims) to an impossible standard based on their religion.

I already addressed some of the other baseless claims about Muslim immigrants you and Mitch made here in a later post above.

you don't know that they became radicalized here. You can't know that because they come from countries that don't have adequate information on the people seeking entry here. With nothing to check against, it doesn't matter that we fingerprint them and ask them a lot of questions.

it's not un-American or un-Constitutional or wrong to improve a system with glaring weaknesses. And none of my claims are baseless - they're all fact and evidence based. Dismissing them as baseless may "address" them but but it doesn't disprove them.

 

[Spartanmack]

so on a sort-of related note, some white supremacist just shot up a mosque in Quebec, killing 6 worshipers and wounding 8.

the US media's response is... slow to point out the race and political beliefs of the shooter, to put it charitably. Guess it doesn't go with the narrative the WhiteHouse is pushing about who is responsible for terrorism. Fox initially tweeted he was from Morrocco, and never deleted the tweet, which continues to be retweeted around. CNN isn't reporting that the shooter was a white supremacist and fan of Trump on social media at all. (I don't get it... liberals love CNN, right? its a liberal network cause Fox and Breitbart say so.)

the press never releases the ethnicity or political beliefs of a suspect until they're known and confirmed. If you think the press is going to bat for this guy to cover up his white supremacy, you're out of your mind - did any news story about Dylan Roof ever not mention the racial aspect of his heinous crimes? No. They only do that for jihadists. They should do the same thing with jihadist murderers that they did with Dylan Roof but they don't and they won't because of the Islamophobia nonsense.

 

[mhughes0021]

no, he didn't. He wasn't driven to crime because he was treated so poorly. He has freedom of religion here and the US treats Arabs and every other religious, ethnic or sexual minority better than any country in the world - they're treated better here than where they are religious or ethnic or sexual majorities in their homeland. This argument is completely false.

so if I'm following your nonsensical screed, by your (il)logic, we should just let everyone in, vetted or not because vetting them doesn't work. Or do you even know the point you're trying to make because you're all over the place with this post.

i thought i stated my point pretty clear....the guy at OSU wasnt a terrorist. The rest of the post went on to show how disfunctional Trumps order is....that it accomplished nothing except keep 5 year olds from their families and a bunch of scientists with green cards from entering the country. Good job!

 

[Spartanmack]

I heard about that this morning. It was first reported that there were two arrested but now they are saying that only one was responsible, the other was a witness. Canadian authorities have not released the name of the shooter.

yeah, I saw a story about it this morning as well. I forget the source but it actually said the suspects (2, possibly 3 at the time) were shouting Allahu Akbar which didn't make any sense to me at the time since he was shooting Muslims in a mosque - Canada didn't seem like the kind of place where you'd see a Sunni on Shiite attack or vice/versa. Then again, when I was living in Chicago I witnessed an argument where guns were drawn between a Serbian and a Croatian at a gas station on the south side.

 

[mhughes0021]

The list has nothing to do with countries that he has business ties with and everything to do with the fact that the countries on the list don't have reliable information systems or even information on the identification and backgrounds of people trying to gain entry into the US from those countries. this isn't a problem with Saudi Arabia or the UAE - they're not 3rd world countries with ongoing major conflicts. They're very sophisticated so they have the systems and data needed to vet people and they haven't been embroiled in major conflict where those systems, if they even existed have been compromised or destroyed.

And the 3 he left off....that have credible systems and have ACTUALLY KILLED Americans...how does it make sense to leave those off? Ohhhhh.....cause he has business ties. kthx.

 

[Michchamp]

The list has nothing to do with countries that he has business ties with and everything to do with the fact that the countries on the list don't have reliable information systems or even information on the identification and backgrounds of people trying to gain entry into the US from those countries. this isn't a problem with Saudi Arabia or the UAE - they're not 3rd world countries with ongoing major conflicts. They're very sophisticated so they have the systems and data needed to vet people and they haven't been embroiled in major conflict where those systems, if they even existed have been compromised or destroyed.

LOL, like 19 of the 20 hijackers in the 9/11 attacks were Saudi and it strongly appears the US government has covered up and buried evidence Saudi officials aided the hijackers... and Saudi Arabia is involved in a full scale bombing campaign and fighting on the ground in Yemen that has been going on for at least a year.

You might honestly be the least informed person who posts here. your over-reliance on Breitbart for all your news is starting to show.

 

[tinselwolverine]

This is the first I have heard he is a white Supremacist . Holy crap wtf is wrong with the media. Tell us the damn truth and stop supporting a side damn it all right or left.

Son of a bitch.

A French Canadian White Supremacist Mass Murdering Terrorist.

That's some shit ya don't hear about every day.