Ferguson, MO

[tinselwolverine]

This statement is like OJ Simpson saying if Nicole hadn't fucked that waiter he wouldn't have had to go through life as an accused murderer.

Or if she hadn't forgotten her fuckin' sunglasses, anyway...

Thumb, you're gonna love this story, just cuz love inappropriate shit like this so much...one Halloween, I went to this costume party...the costume theme dress as a famous dead person.

So I went as Ron Goldman.

I slashed up a shirt, put fake blood on the slashes, and walked around trying to hand everybody at the party a pair of sunglasses.

People asked me "dude-that is so inappropriate and morbid-how could you come to a party like that?"

"Because I didn't think I could pull off JonBenet Ramsey..."

 

[Gulo Blue]

But he would have been okay with big scary man?

Red, I think he was. The guy got shot, multiple times or at least multiple shots..reasonable man would have kept running. Maybe he thought he was out of bullets and wanted another piece of the officer. We may never know .. but its a bit unfair to the officer. If not for Brown, this doesn't happen and officer doesn't have to go through life with this on him..

But I think both times, the grab into the car and the stop turn around was enough for the officer to do what he thought he had to do.

Hold on now. Stopping and turning around is what the officer wanted him to do. How is that supposed to justify more shooting? It comes down to whether or not he charged or appeared to reach into his waistband...or did something that could be threatening. Things that, in my opinion, aren't clear enough and should have gone to trial. Unless I'm wrong about the law, which I could be.

...and the "if not for Brown" arguments...really have no legal significance. You can just as easily say "if Wilson stayed in bed that day..." I understand the point is that Brown was in the wrong 1st, but who was wrong 1st doesn't change the legal requirements Wilson has for firing his gun. If Wilson was wrong to fire the second set of shots, it was wrong. If it was legally justified, then it was. What happened in the car really doesn't impact the legality 153 feet down the road except to the degree that it impacts his fear level if Brown charged.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Or if she hadn't forgotten her fuckin' sunglasses, anyway...

Thumb, you're gonna love this story, just cuz love inappropriate shit like this so much...one Halloween, I went to this costume party...the costume theme dress as a famous dead person.

So I went as Ron Goldman.

I slashed up a shirt, put fake blood on the slashes, and walked around trying to hand everybody at the party a pair of sunglasses.

People asked me "dude-that is so inappropriate and morbid-how could you come to a party like that?"

"Because I didn't think I could pull off JonBenet Ramsey..."

You probably need to meet this person.

So wrong...

 

[Mitchrapp]

Stopping, and turning. Then make a run at the officer again?

He gets fired at 5 times, so he runs but then stops because that's what the officer asked him to do? Yeah that's probably what happened ;-) Criminal, robs a store - reaches in cop's car, punches him..but after running he stops because the cop asked him too. That's is about as likely as a two dollar bill..

 

[Gulo Blue]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/ferguson-grand-jury-findings/

 

[Gulo Blue]

Stopping, and turning. Then make a run at the officer again?

He gets fired at 5 times, so he runs but then stops because that's what the officer asked him to do? Yeah that's probably what happened ;-) Criminal, robs a store - reaches in cop's car, punches him..but after running he stops because the cop asked him too. That's is about as likely as a two dollar bill..

Evidence suggests he made it back 25 ft towards the officer. I think that supports the idea that he charged the officer. Just stopping and turning wouldn't justify the shooting, but it looks like Brown did more than just stop and turn around.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Evidence suggests he made it back 25 ft towards the officer. I think that supports the idea that he charged the officer. Just stopping and turning wouldn't justify the shooting, but it looks like Brown did more than just stop and turn around.

That's what I was trying to point out. Some like to make it sound like he was 100 feet away running opposite direction the full time. Thug mentality.

 

[tigersofjustice]

Stopping, and turning. Then make a run at the officer again?

He gets fired at 5 times, so he runs but then stops because that's what the officer asked him to do? Yeah that's probably what happened ;-) Criminal, robs a store - reaches in cop's car, punches him..but after running he stops because the cop asked him too. That's is about as likely as a two dollar bill..

So you think a man who has just been shot at twice and is running from the officer after having just been shot at twice would turn around and charge that same officer who is still holding a gun on him? Does that make more sense to you than him simply stopping and turning around to give up? Come on.

Absolutely nobody, not even somebody who recently punched an officer would turn around and charge a guy holding on gun on him. That makes 0 sense at all.

Far more likely for me anyway that a walk or a gradual jog towards the officer with his hands up became a "charge" by a "demon" in his mind ending gunfire.

Fact remains that if this officer had stayed in his police car and drove after the suspect, or if he carried a taser like almost any other officer, we wouldn't need to have this debate because the suspect would still be alive. If the officer had proper working squad car video, or a body video, we would also not be having this debate.

 

[Mitchrapp]

So you think a man who has just been shot at twice and is running from the officer after having just been shot at twice would turn around and charge that same officer who is still holding a gun on him? Does that make more sense to you than him simply stopping and turning around to give up? Come on.

Absolutely nobody, not even somebody who recently punched an officer would turn around and charge a guy holding on gun on him. That makes 0 sense at all.

Far more likely for me anyway that a walk or a gradual jog towards the officer with his hands up became a "charge" by a "demon" in his mind ending gunfire.

Fact remains that if this officer had stayed in his police car and drove after the suspect, or if he carried a taser like almost any other officer, we wouldn't need to have this debate because the suspect would still be alive. If the officer had proper working squad car video, or a body video, we would also not be having this debate.

Then how he'd get 25 feet away from 100? The stuff about taser, body video etc..that's not on the officer. Obviously they don't issue that stuff to Ferguson police.

You blame it on the officer all you want..fact remains Brown got himself dead.

 

[Thumb]

You blame it on the officer all you want..fact remains Brown got himself dead.

See, that's why your wrong all the time. It's not fact. It's not fact for either side, if anything was a fact this debate would not be happening.

The only thing that is a fact, is that we will likely never know exactly what happened, seeing as no single statement made by Wilson, Johnson, or any witness exactly corroborates the statements of anyone else.

Or perhaps you're just unclear what the word fact actually means.

 

[Mitchrapp]

See, that's why your wrong all the time. It's not fact. It's not fact for either side, if anything was a fact this debate would not be happening.

The only thing that is a fact, is that we will likely never know exactly what happened, seeing as no single statement made by Wilson, Johnson, or any witness exactly corroborates the statements of anyone else.

Or perhaps you're just unclear what the word fact actually means.

And that's why we have evidence. Because some people flat out lied, others unsure. The evidence is a story that says it happened this way. Okay so maybe we can't say 100% sure what the hell happened but Brown was at fault. He started the whole thing..

 

[hailhail]

It would've been nice to have Brown's side of the story too. Except that, ya know, he was shot and killed.

 

[Mitchrapp]

It would've been nice to have Brown's side of the story too. Except that, ya know, he was shot and killed.

"I was just minding my own business, I didn't do shit.." - That's what his statement would have been.

 

[Michchamp]

It would've been nice to have Brown's side of the story too. Except that, ya know, he was shot and killed.

The Intercept had the best summation of all the facts that I've read about the grand jury investigation. I linked to it there.

The DA who threw the investigation to the Grand Jury (a very pro-police move in the first place here) comes from an entire family of police, who has publicly said he became a DA only because it was the closest he could get to police work, or something like that (he lost a leg to cancer early in life), as well as some other pro-law enforcement comments over the years.

Yeah... they should've appointed a special prosecutor. the local law enforcement structure should've completely been removed from the conducting, well, pretty much everything associated with this after the shooting... from policing the initial "riots," to investigating the incident, and charging the officer with whatever crimes appropriate as revealed by the investigation.

 

[Monster]

So you think a man who has just been shot at twice and is running from the officer after having just been shot at twice would turn around and charge that same officer who is still holding a gun on him? Does that make more sense to you than him simply stopping and turning around to give up? Come on.

Absolutely nobody, not even somebody who recently punched an officer would turn around and charge a guy holding on gun on him. That makes 0 sense at all.

Far more likely for me anyway that a walk or a gradual jog towards the officer with his hands up became a "charge" by a "demon" in his mind ending gunfire.

Fact remains that if this officer had stayed in his police car and drove after the suspect, or if he carried a taser like almost any other officer, we wouldn't need to have this debate because the suspect would still be alive. If the officer had proper working squad car video, or a body video, we would also not be having this debate.

Why would you chase a 300lb man with a car? At some point, he'd still have to get out of the car to arrest him.

And I don't think you can say he wouldn't charge him. You've seen his video in the liquor store. He took the cigarillos and didn't look like he cared if he got caught. Didn't try to hide the fact that he took them, didn't try to hide his face, didn't run out. No, he casually took them and intimidated the clerk. Then, after knowing the guy probably called the cops, he tried to intimidate, bully, and beat down the first cop that he saw. What part of Brown makes any sense?

What in those incidents makes you think he wouldn't charge that cop after he realized he wasn't going to get away? Why does it make more sense that wilson shot brown while he was surrendering? Prior to those shots, wilson was only defending himself, so it makes little sense that he'd shoot him in cold blood.

And the demon comment was clearly referring to how violent and aggressive Brown was being. The look in his face probably wasn't pretty. Not sure why people think it was a case of scary black people. Not sure who mentioned this but i thought I'd add in my thoughts on that.


Oh and taser's aren't always reliable. I've seen videos of people getting tased and they don't go down. If wilson had tased brown, we might be wondering why he didn't use his gun because brown beat him to death. Then again, Ferguson wouldn't have burned and this thread wouldn't exist. Hell, I doubt the national media would even care.

 

[Monster]

"I was just minding my own business, I didn't do shit.." - That's what his statement would have been.

Exactly. Probably word for word.

 

[Michchamp]

yeah, it's perfectly reasonable to assume the average black teenager is a suicidal maniac who, unarmed, would charge an angry cop pointing a gun at him for no reason, rather than trying to preserve his own life. Black people are so crazy, eh Monster! You're really the voice of calm, rational logic on this one...

 

[zyxt9]

"You're too much of a fucking pussy to shoot me." This was said by Brown to Wilson.

Even the friend admitted Wilson warned he would shoot. Several shots were fired prior to the kill shot.

Yet the kill shot still hit him in the front.

What normal people acting with reasonable minds would be doing is hitting the deck to avoid being shot. But this kid has it in his head this cop won't actually shoot him.

Whether you want to believe he was charging or not, at one point he was 100' away and kill shot was made from 8-10' away. Brown was not 100' from police car when shot. Wilson did not drag or otherwise transport and stage the scene as evidenced by video and physical evidence at the scene.

But lets keep saying the kid was not at minimum moving toward Wilson and completely ignore logic, reason, and evidence... let's instead keep churning the race angle because that somehow changes the evidence and makes Wilson the bad guy. Who needs things like physical evidence? Or is all of the physical evidence a conspiracy now too and planted by the cops, again despite video evidence shot almost immediately after not showing any restating or cover up work by cops.

Champ, I realize as a lawyer you make a living by skewing evidence and facts. Your posts demonstrate this tactic by removing these data points from your posts and divert focus by asking why a teen would actually do these things. That does not change the physical evidence, but I'm sure it works to skew perceptions and tries to make people look at the evidence in a way that their minds workout alternatives to the physical evidence, hopefully casting doubt. Nothing wrong with trying to see if alternate possibilities can be reasoned out, it is good to question and test theories to see if the reality was different than what is presented by one side. Feel free to keep trying, but keep in mind Wilson ordered Brown to stop and fired multiple times before the kill shot, so why did Brown die where he did if he was not moving toward Wilson despite orders to stop and essentially warning shots directed his way?

What sane person doesn't hit the ground after the first shot? Normal reaction is not to move toward a cop firing shots at you. A criminal attacker threatening your life, maybe.... but not a cop who is ordering you to stop.

 

[zyxt9]

And another thing, lets go with premise Brown's hands were actually up. He was ordered to stop yet kept moving toward Wilson, again despite warning shots. The cop SHOULD feel threatened by that when considering he had already been attacked by the kid. A cop orders you to stop and you keep moving toward him, whether you are moving slowly with your hands up or sprinting, either is a threat to the cop and he is justified in shooting.

 

[Spartanmack]

I'm getting the idea from the 5,000 > 400 argument you made several pages ago.

What exactly do you think is a myth? The idea that our legal system, including the police, discriminate against black people, is no myth. Police violence re-triggers the conversation.

Exactly what I said is a myth - that police violence against minorities is a real threat to minorities. It's not. Cops kill about 400 people per year - the overwhelming majority (like in this case) are justified. Yes, there is corruption and some abuse of power, even some level of police brutality but if anything, the statistics show that police show considerable restraint. And the idea that this case is being put forth by the race hustlers as evidence of a problem that doesn't exist it absurd and it's largely due to it being misreported by the media from the very beginning.