Ferguson, MO

[Monster]

yeah, it's perfectly reasonable to assume the average black teenager is a suicidal maniac who, unarmed, would charge an angry cop pointing a gun at him for no reason, rather than trying to preserve his own life. Black people are so crazy, eh Monster! You're really the voice of calm, rational logic on this one...

Suicidal? What would you call punching a cop and trying to take his gun? That is suicidal, begging to get shot. He was an irrational thug on a power trip. His actions back that up.

There are plenty of cases of cops beating up unarmed men and women to complain about and protest over. This is not one of them. Brown wasn't targeted, he wasn't shot because of being black. He was shot and killed because of his own actions.

 

[Thumb]

Did those shots hit him? Maybe a few did, but Brown kept coming until the kill shot.

Even if Wilson was just a poor marksman, why did Brown keep moving toward him.

You cannot answer it, but keep pushing your Racism Agenda as always.

Hold on there strawman....

You're calling shots that hit Brown but were not fatal or missed him (and ended up in peoples windows) warning shots.

Now keep pushing your stupidity agenda as always.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Wow, a whole 12 out of a total of how many? certainly over 120, but lets use that as the high point to maximize the numbers in your favor. I personally would not be surprised to find out of all the people in that proximity to what was happening that 10% got arrested wrongfully. I would actually venture those were more likely the percentages detained during the chaos until things calmed down.

Again, how many were given a citation even? Convictions of some wrong doing??? None is my guess, but where is that conveniently left out dataset?

The set of reporters arrested wrongfully/the set of total reporters arrested is not related to the the set of all people arrested wrongfully/the set of people in proximity to what was happening.

It would be more significant to see if reporters get arrested at similar rates at other protests. Did any protesters get arrested in the Rodney King riots? I know some did during the Occupy Wall St. stuff and they were saying the same thing back then, that it was unusual.

 

[Thumb]

Suicidal? What would you call punching a cop and trying to take his gun? That is suicidal, begging to get shot. He was an irrational thug on a power trip. His actions back that up.

Again, this is all alleged. It may be true, or it may not. It's only the word of Wilson that claims this.

 

[Gulo Blue]

And those again are twisted facts to fit an Agenda. I read that propaganda article before. And once again this is an attempt to place the thoughts, opinions, results from SOME of those studied and apply them upon a separate, untested individual in order to push the Racism Agenda.

There is strong scientific evidence of persistence racial bias. No agenda needed. That doesn't explain what happened between Wilson and Brown in any way, but it has a lot to do with how things got to where they are.

Step 1: The Wilson/Brown hits the 24 hour news cycle. Some of our biased population substitutes their biases for explanations in the absence of facts.

Step 2: Protests and police actions progressively escalate, biases fuel people to take sides and see the other side as responsible for the escalation.

 

[zyxt9]

...and what does how you use the term have to do with how he used the term?

...and how would it be ok for the officer to say this, even if you knew for certain there was no racism involved?

We have zero data on the stresses that officer was experiencing at that moment, and no one is saying that the officer in question might need some coaching/training on how to keep better control of his emotions in those situations.... but that hardly justifies looting and burning, etc...nor placing a Racist label upon that officer let alone the entire department as those who are pushing the Racism Agenda continue to do.

Come on Gulo, I'm seriously confused by your internalization of these events and lack of requiring scientific data, not just snippets, not to mention the blinders blocking other viewpoints, info, and most importantly hard data instead of hypothetical and trumped up data. You've for some reason made this more personal than scientific. If there is a personal reason, you don't have to share it, but I would like to say I'm sorry if I've said something you took as a personal a front. I have great respect for you and your knowledge, I'm just confused by your unwavering position.

Yes, police have been known to go too far, and this situation they were more heavily geared up than what might be considered reasonable, but they didn't go all Waco on these protestors. They believed, albeit incorrectly, that they needed to gear up to that level. If you are pushing for an investigation as to why, that is fine. Maybe in THAT investigation there will be legitimate Racial issues that need to be confronted and appropriate peaceful and legal actions done as a result. I would have no issue with that, and prosecute anyone who deserves it... just make sure they deserve it and that it isn't someone being brought up on trumped up charges.

 

[Monster]

Again, this is all alleged. It may be true, or it may not. It's only the word of Wilson that claims this.

Using that reasoning, everything that has no video evidence is only alleged. Evidence backs up Wilson's claim that Brown fought him. I'd say it's more than just an allegation now.

 

[Spartanmack]

Where's my post from pages ago where I went over some of the other things this has become about?

Covering all of it is a bit more than a message board post, don't you think? I'm not sure it's worth the effort if you equate looters and people protesting. They're not the same thing.

I do agree there is more to it and I've addressed it pretty consistently. And I'm not equating protesters and rioters but we're talking about the riots, looting and arson and for the most part, so is the media. I never said that the shooting was all there was to it but if you want to say it's about something bigger then your criticism of my comment about what the real threat to young black males is seems a bit unreasonable. It's not irrelevant, it's not a strawman and it's not changing the subject.

Detaining, denying access to or censoring the media is wrong - even if they are biased against you. if that is what they were doing - as Zyxt9 points out, those arrests could have been a function of certain media people getting swept up w/ the crowd. As for the peaceful protesters, if you want to feel bad for them that's fine. I'm not so sympathetic. Tear gas in not a precision instrument. it's for crowd control. If a crowd gets out of hand and there are some peaceful people caught in the mix when the canisters start flying, too bad. It happened in Ann Arbor when my brother was at uofm - he was walking home from a liquor store with friend and along the route there happened to be some protest they had no part in. Apparently, they were passing through as things were getting a bit out of hand and that happened to be the time the cops started firing tear gas and he got exposed. He wasn't pissed at the cops and he wasn't even one of the protesters - peaceful or otherwise.

 

[Gulo Blue]

We have zero data on the stresses that officer was experiencing at that moment, and no one is saying that the officer in question might need some coaching/training on how to keep better control of his emotions in those situations.... but that hardly justifies looting and burning, etc...nor placing a Racist label upon that officer let alone the entire department as those who are pushing the Racism Agenda continue to do.

Come on Gulo, I'm seriously confused by your internalization of these events and lack of requiring scientific data, not just snippets, not to mention the blinders blocking other viewpoints, info, and most importantly hard data instead of hypothetical and trumped up data. You've for some reason made this more personal than scientific. If there is a personal reason, you don't have to share it, but I would like to say I'm sorry if I've said something you took as a personal a front. I have great respect for you and your knowledge, I'm just confused by your unwavering position.

Yes, police have been known to go too far, and this situation they were more heavily geared up than what might be considered reasonable, but they didn't go all Waco on these protestors. They believed, albeit incorrectly, that they needed to gear up to that level. If you are pushing for an investigation as to why, that is fine. Maybe in THAT investigation there will be legitimate Racial issues that need to be confronted and appropriate peaceful and legal actions done as a result. I would have no issue with that, and prosecute anyone who deserves it... just make sure they deserve it and that it isn't someone being brought up on trumped up charges.

I think you're reading into things I've said. And don't get too caught up on the small arguments. When you try to point to your use of a word to say something about someone else's use of the word, I can't help but point out that you've only opened the door to ambiguity, you can't say that he wasn't being racist. Don't mistake that for a claim that he was being racist. And if you're interested in understanding what's happening, it doesn't matter as much that we know whether that guy is racist or not, it's how it looks as it's reported that impacts the reaction.

With regard to why people are protesting, it doesn't matter which police are racist and to what degree. Bias works both ways. Do you not understand that I'm saying that? If the police react too strongly, some people are going to see that as racist and as part of a history of racism. And they'll protest that.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I do agree there is more to it and I've addressed it pretty consistently. And I'm not equating protesters and rioters but we're talking about the riots, looting and arson and for the most part, so is the media. I never said that the shooting was all there was to it but if you want to say it's about something bigger then your criticism of my comment about what the real threat to young black males is seems a bit unreasonable. It's not irrelevant, it's not a strawman and it's not changing the subject.

There have been protest spread out over the country. Had some here in NC last week. Mostly they block roads. It's not about looting.

If we are just talking about riots, looting, and arson, then I don't have any disagreement.

 

[Thumb]

Using that reasoning, everything that has no video evidence is only alleged.

Or things that have enough witnesses to corroborate those statements. The fact is there is no evidence it happened like Wilson said, and no evidence that it didn't. The witnesses and primaries (Wilson and Johnson) statements are all over the place.

 

[Spartanmack]

There have been protest spread out over the country. Had some here in NC last week. Mostly they block roads. It's not about looting.

there were nonviolent protests here in NY as well, but they were pretty small and nobody is really talking about them. From what I've seen, the only other protests to get any attention were in Oakland, where things did get violent and there was looting and vandalism.

 

[Mitchrapp]

This has to be the most ridiculous thing posted in this thread.

YES!! Not number one any longer, eh?

Woo hoo..

 

[Gulo Blue]

there were nonviolent protests here in NY as well, but they were pretty small and nobody is really talking about them. From what I've seen, the only other protests to get any attention were in Oakland, where things did get violent and there was looting and vandalism.

Most the coverage in terms of volume tends towards the spectacle. The recent things I'm aware of (but haven't clicked on yet) is a police officer hugging some kid and football players making the hands up gesture.

 

[tigersofjustice]

And that's why we have evidence. Because some people flat out lied, others unsure. The evidence is a story that says it happened this way. Okay so maybe we can't say 100% sure what the hell happened but Brown was at fault. He started the whole thing..

All the evidence says (to the grand jury) is that there wasn't enough evidence to charge a crime that could be convicted beyond a reasonable doubt (standard is probable cause but the DA basically did a trial with affirmative defenses and all) . That's it.

It says absolutely nothing else.

 

[tigersofjustice]

Why would you chase a 300lb man with a car? At some point, he'd still have to get out of the car to arrest him.

And I don't think you can say he wouldn't charge him. You've seen his video in the liquor store. He took the cigarillos and didn't look like he cared if he got caught. Didn't try to hide the fact that he took them, didn't try to hide his face, didn't run out. No, he casually took them and intimidated the clerk. Then, after knowing the guy probably called the cops, he tried to intimidate, bully, and beat down the first cop that he saw. What part of Brown makes any sense?

What in those incidents makes you think he wouldn't charge that cop after he realized he wasn't going to get away? Why does it make more sense that wilson shot brown while he was surrendering? Prior to those shots, wilson was only defending himself, so it makes little sense that he'd shoot him in cold blood.

And the demon comment was clearly referring to how violent and aggressive Brown was being. The look in his face probably wasn't pretty. Not sure why people think it was a case of scary black people. Not sure who mentioned this but i thought I'd add in my thoughts on that.


Oh and taser's aren't always reliable. I've seen videos of people getting tased and they don't go down. If wilson had tased brown, we might be wondering why he didn't use his gun because brown beat him to death. Then again, Ferguson wouldn't have burned and this thread wouldn't exist. Hell, I doubt the national media would even care.

1. You chase a man in a car while they are still in driving spaces because it is easier for the officer to keep up. It is safer. And because you can always get out if he veers off a roadway or sidewalk. I've almost never seen an officer chase a guy on foot in the street when he was inside his cop car.

2. Don't over dramatize what he did in the store, he took some cigars and pushed a store owner. That isn't the same thing in the slightest as charging into gun fire.

3. It makes perfect sense that he would shoot him in cold blood if he was afraid. He probably was afraid, but his level of fear might have been unreasonably high based on what had just occurred and the type of individual he was dealing with.

 

[zyxt9]

Hold on there strawman....

You're calling shots that hit Brown but were not fatal or missed him (and ended up in peoples windows) warning shots.

Now keep pushing your stupidity agenda as always.

1. Cops have or have not ever fired a warning shot?

2. Whether a shot fired is a warning shot or a plain miss, you feel free to keep walking toward that cop. We could only be so lucky as to have you be Brown Part 2, I woukd absolutely LOVE for you to do that. Come on asshole, go for it, keep movingbtoward the coo firing at you, I dare you.

Now go fuck off and die already, I'm so fucking tired of your Racist Agenda and bullshit.

 

[zyxt9]

1. You chase a man in a car while they are still in driving spaces because it is easier for the officer to keep up. It is safer. And because you can always get out if he veers off a roadway or sidewalk. I've almost never seen an officer chase a guy on foot in the street when he was inside his cop car.

2. Don't over dramatize what he did in the store, he took some cigars and pushed a store owner. That isn't the same thing in the slightest as charging into gun fire.

3. It makes perfect sense that he would shoot him in cold blood if he was afraid. He probably was afraid, but his level of fear might have been unreasonably high based on what had just occurred and the type of individual he was dealing with.

Unreasonably high? How so, Mr. Monday Morning Quarterback. Were you in that exact situation before that you have the ability to make that call? Just been in a fight with someone much larger, a gun being fought over, afterward you pointed a gun at the bigger guy and despite ordering him to stop he continues moving toward you. Despite firing multiple shots he is still coming toward you. Please tell me how you would not feel emotions that were highly charged. Please tell me how you remain calm and not allow your emotions to fire the final kill shot?

Brown is dead due to his choices. He could have chosen to lie down and be arrested. Instead he chose to move toward the cop he previously punched and fought with to get the gun from.

Brown made bad choices, but you continue to blame Wilson. Zero comprehension of reality is what that is.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Unreasonably high?

It wouldn't surprise me if part of the legal standard was whether or not a reasonable person would have been afraid for his life.

 

[Thumb]

1. Cops have or have not ever fired a warning shot?

2. Whether a shot fired is a warning shot or a plain miss, you feel free to keep walking toward that cop. We could only be so lucky as to have you be Brown Part 2, I woukd absolutely LOVE for you to do that. Come on asshole, go for it, keep movingbtoward the coo firing at you, I dare you.

Now go fuck off and die already, I'm so fucking tired of your Racist Agenda and bullshit.

Where is my racist agenda? Please point out one time where I made it about white cop, black victim.

Come on internet toughguy, back up your shit for once.

Or just keep posting moronic shit like the shots that hit Brown in the arms or missed him and stuck peoples houses or windows were "warning shots".


[/Racist Agenda]