Ferguson, MO

[Gulo Blue]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNFTfR6WycA&feature=youtu.be

This interviewer has some guts, interviewing what I hope is the angry end of the spectrum.

 

[Monster]

I agree; dumb racists like Mitch keep confusing the issue though... no one was complaining because Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown were killed, just that the proper procedures were not followed, in the former, until the national uproad finally forced FL officials to charge Zimmerman with murder, and in the latter... well, for reasons as discussed in this thread.

Trayvon was stalked and when forced to react to his stalker, was killed. Zimmerman may have not been racist or even a murderer, but he should have went to prison for at least manslaughter.

Brown's actions led to his own death. I do believe all proper procedures were followed...unlike those sympathetic to the "Hands up Don't Shoot!" movement. The officer's actions were not motivated by race and he didn't set out to kill anyone. That might not be what YOU are saying, but that's what protesters are saying. It makes me sick. If you do something illegal and then try to fight officers, you're going to get hurt or killed. It's that fucking simple. If Brown had simply fled, he would have been chased and tackled to the ground and sent to jail. If he had given up, he would have been just another statistic.

I forget this big guy's name..Garner? Warner? He resisted, which was stupid, but he didn't make any threatening movements. There's no way a chokehold was necessary. The amount of force used was way over the top. Someone should be in jail right now. Do I think it was racially motivated? No. I think it was the size of the individual.

Now, they're on TV talking about that 12 year old who was killed after waving his gun around and pulling it out when police officers confronted him. I'm sorry, but 12 year olds do kill. What the fuck is a cop supposed to do when someone pulls out a gun? His actions dictated his end. It's sad, but that's how it is.

I'm just sick of seeing these cases promoted as proof that police are going after black people's lives. Two of these three cop on black deaths these cases are 100% the dead person's fault. The other should have ended with the officer(s) being fired and prosecuted. I don't think any of them were racially motivated, though.

 

[Monster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNFTfR6WycA&feature=youtu.be

This interviewer has some guts, interviewing what I hope is the angry end of the spectrum.

I typically hate this guy, but wow. No wonder there was rioting. All those people down there talking about shit like that has to get them even angrier than they were before joining the protest. There is no rational thinking and they don't seem to want peace.

While I'm sure this was heavily edited and only the most extreme interviews were included, it shows a bit of what cops went through. A reporter and cameraman are called racist and have people yelling at them and getting in their face? A reporter? What the hell did they do and say to the cops?


edit: shit, look at the comments in the video. Wow. A lot of racists. Damn it.

 

[Michchamp]

Trayvon was stalked and when forced to react to his stalker, was killed. Zimmerman may have not been racist or even a murderer, but he should have went to prison for at least manslaughter.

Brown's actions led to his own death. I do believe all proper procedures were followed...unlike those sympathetic to the "Hands up Don't Shoot!" movement. The officer's actions were not motivated by race and he didn't set out to kill anyone. That might not be what YOU are saying, but that's what protesters are saying. It makes me sick. If you do something illegal and then try to fight officers, you're going to get hurt or killed. It's that fucking simple. If Brown had simply fled, he would have been chased and tackled to the ground and sent to jail. If he had given up, he would have been just another statistic.

I forget this big guy's name..Garner? Warner? He resisted, which was stupid, but he didn't make any threatening movements. There's no way a chokehold was necessary. The amount of force used was way over the top. Someone should be in jail right now. Do I think it was racially motivated? No. I think it was the size of the individual.

Now, they're on TV talking about that 12 year old who was killed after waving his gun around and pulling it out when police officers confronted him. I'm sorry, but 12 year olds do kill. What the fuck is a cop supposed to do when someone pulls out a gun? His actions dictated his end. It's sad, but that's how it is.

I'm just sick of seeing these cases promoted as proof that police are going after black people's lives. Two of these three cop on black deaths these cases are 100% the dead person's fault. The other should have ended with the officer(s) being fired and prosecuted. I don't think any of them were racially motivated, though.

In Brown's case, the FPD already admitted the officer who stopped him & shot him to death had no knowledge he was a suspect in the prior strong-arm robbery. You do realize that, right?

The difference in opinion of you and I here seems to be that you're willing to accept the police department's version of events without question; I'm not. I think there are more than enough holes in their response, and sufficient evidence of pro-police bias in the conduct of the grand jury to doubt the official story, and that's not even getting to the way they policed the initial and subsequent protests, which was shockingly heavy-handed and arbitrary.

In terms of "these cases promoted as proof that police are going after black people's lives" as you say, I think there's more than sufficient evidence out there - beyond these cases - that black Americans are exceptionally subject to police violence and brutality, but finding credible sources and presenting it will take some time. Regardless, I don't think it's reasonable to assume these communities are simply looking for an excuse to riot... and therefore they DO have some basis to be upset with these events.

 

[Monster]

In Brown's case, the FPD already admitted the officer who stopped him & shot him to death had no knowledge he was a suspect in the prior strong-arm robbery. You do realize that, right?

He knew of the robbery after hearing it over the radio. He confronted Brown and told him to get out of the streets before he realized he matched the description. Then when Brown cursed at Wilson in response, Wilson noticed the cigarillos and stopped his car after realizing he matched the description of the suspect. Tried to get out and Brown shut the door on him. Wilson tried to get out again, and that's when Brown hit him and shut him back in the car. That's when they fought inside the car and the gun was fired within the car.

I don't quite see what you're seeing. Brown knew the cops would be called. And his reaction should really make you think twice about what side of this you're on. If you had just robbed a store without hiding your face and an officer tells you to get out of the street, would you tell him to go fuck himself? And then when the cop realizes you are the thief, are you going to try to fight that cop? No, because you're not a fucking retard. No matter how he died, Brown is not a life that I would shed a tear over. Garner...yes. That guy did nothing wrong and a huge injustice was committed. That black woman who had the officer on top of her, beating her. These are the people I'd fight for. Not some thug that has the fuck the police mentality. That way of thinking only ends one way.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I forget this big guy's name..Garner? Warner? He resisted, which was stupid, but he didn't make any threatening movements. There's no way a chokehold was necessary. The amount of force used was way over the top. Someone should be in jail right now. Do I think it was racially motivated? No. I think it was the size of the individual.

It didn't look to me like he was really being choked though. I think he was having trouble breathing because he had a bunch of dudes on top of him pinning him down trying to cuff him.

I think he legitimately was having trouble breathing, as he was claiming.

I guess I'll have to look at the video again, to see how quickly the cops got the cuffs on, and should they have been aware that maybe they should have gotten off him as soon as he claimed he was having trouble breathing?

Of course, a great big fat dude prone on the ground with his arms cuffed behind him, that probably wasn't really helpful in him being able to breathe easily.

At some point, somebody realized that the dude was having a severe medical reaction, because they took him to the hospital, rather than to jail.

It's a sucky situation, I'm glad I'm not a cop.

I wouldn't mind playing one on TV though.

 

[Monster]

It's a sucky situation, I'm glad I'm not a cop.

I wouldn't mind playing one on TV though.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Brown is not a life that I would shed a tear over. Garner...yes. That guy did nothing wrong...

No...the dude did nothing he should have died for...he didn't do nothing wrong.

He was out selling cigarettes illegally; my understanding is it's the 30th time he got popped for it.

Not a horrendous crime...but the merchants in the area were the ones who evoked the police involvement. He had been major nuisance to the local business people for quite some time; attracting riff raff, which drove legitimate customers from the area, and cutting into the business of merchants who were selling cigarettes legally.

I think every time he was popped it was because of a complaint from a local merchant; all the cops knew this; it's not like they were out looking for something to do and all said "hey, look at this big black fucker, let's choke him to death, or suffocate him to death, or some such thing..."

 

[Thumb]

Anyone else notice a certain poster seems to have disappeared?

After throwing around several baseless accusations against a couple of us, looks like he tucked his tail between his legs and bolted.

Yet I constantly see his name at the top of the main page, so it's not like he's just not around.

So Mr. Invisible, you can do one of three things, you can offer some proof to back up your accusations, you can swallow your pride and retract said accusations, or you can keep hiding hoping people will forget.

We won't.

 

[Spartanmack]

It didn't look to me like he was really being choked though. I think he was having trouble breathing because he had a bunch of dudes on top of him pinning him down trying to cuff him.

I think he legitimately was having trouble breathing, as he was claiming.

I guess I'll have to look at the video again, to see how quickly the cops got the cuffs on, and should they have been aware that maybe they should have gotten off him as soon as he claimed he was having trouble breathing?

Of course, a great big fat dude prone on the ground with his arms cuffed behind him, that probably wasn't really helpful in him being able to breathe easily.

At some point, somebody realized that the dude was having a severe medical reaction, because they took him to the hospital, rather than to jail.

It's a sucky situation, I'm glad I'm not a cop.

I wouldn't mind playing one on TV though.

Agreed - very tough situation to be put in.

According to the autopsy report Garner died from compression of the neck and compression of the chest. It further noted that his severe medical conditions - acute and chronic bronchial asthma, obesity, and heart disease contributed to his death. Garner weighed over 400lbs and was not in good health. There was no damage to Garner's windpipe or neck bones. He was not choked to death and according to police experts, the officer had him in a submission hold, designed to restrict blood flow to the brain, and not a choke hold - choke holds have been banned by the NYPD since 1993. These actions were a contributing factor that probably helped trigger the complications that led to his death but again, he was not choked to death. His breathing issues were due to his weight and chronic illnesses and the prone position he was in - that is why he couldn't breathe.

The argument then comes down to was it excessive force? He's known to the officers based on the fact he's been arrested 8 times for the same offense. He clearly doesn't submit when told he's under arrest. The suspect doesn't get to decide whether or not they're being arrested and if he doesn't submit, they still have to arrest him. If you see in the video, the officer grabs Garner around the neck and under the arm, taking Garner's right arm in the hold - that is NOT a choke hold. I don't think there was any intent to kill or even harm Garner and I think his preexisting medical conditions contributed as much if not more to his death than anything the cops did. It's a shame and a tragedy but I don't think the officers actions rise to the level of a crime here.

 

[Michchamp]

oh, he used a submission hold, not a choke hold? that changes everything.

 

[Spartanmack]

oh, he used a submission hold, not a choke hold? that changes everything.

It only matters for people concerned with the facts - facts have never been a problem for you because you have the race card.

 

[Sbee]

I don't see this as a black/white issue, but does it really look like he's resisting arrest? was he even close to violent towards the police officers? do you think they should have continuned to choke him while on the ground?

I'd say that at least deserves a trial for negligent homicide or manslaughter.

 

[Thumb]

It only matters for people concerned with the facts - facts have never been a problem for you because you have the race card.

Wrong. Excessive force is excessive force no matter what you label it as.

Just in case anyone was concerned with facts or anything.

 

[tigersofjustice]

The argument then comes down to was it excessive force? He's known to the officers based on the fact he's been arrested 8 times for the same offense. He clearly doesn't submit when told he's under arrest. The suspect doesn't get to decide whether or not they're being arrested and if he doesn't submit, they still have to arrest him. If you see in the video, the officer grabs Garner around the neck and under the arm, taking Garner's right arm in the hold - that is NOT a choke hold. I don't think there was any intent to kill or even harm Garner and I think his preexisting medical conditions contributed as much if not more to his death than anything the cops did. It's a shame and a tragedy but I don't think the officers actions rise to the level of a crime here.

I'm not quite sure how you can watch that video and not say that the officer deserved to be charged with something. IMO that is a manslaughter charge or at least some form of negligent homicide.

The deceased 'resisting' wouldn't amount to a crime itself in the state of Michigan in many courts around these parts.

The man was grabbed and choked with his hands out in a 'give up' position. And yes he was choked, that much is clear by how he died. There was almost no justification for the use of any force let alone that much force.

By the way I cannot find the original video on youtube anymore. I was going to post it for anyone who hasn't seen it. Every video there now seems to be news reports with small clips of it.

 

[Monster]

Did any of them inform him that he was under arrest before tackling him? If so, you can say he resisted arrest, but even then the force was excessive. It didn't seem like they even gave him instructions to stop resisting. They just kind of grabbed him and took him to the ground.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Wrong. Excessive force is excessive force no matter what you label it as.

Just in case anyone was concerned with facts or anything.

The difference is you seem to always point to it being racially motivated.

 

[Thumb]

The difference is you seem to always point to it being racially motivated.

Okay, post an example. But in the meantime please tell me what fucking difference it would make either way? Spartypants is arguing there is a difference whether it was a chokehold or just a submission hold that killed the guy, and I'm saying there isn't. Either one would have been excessive force.

Now I'll await your thoughtful insight as to how racial motivation has anything at all to do with anything I said about it, StrawMitch.

 

[Mitchrapp]

You just won the Internet because one post was not about race. Want a cookie or a gold bar?

 

[Thumb]

You just won the Internet because one post was not about race. Want a cookie or a gold bar?

No.

But I'd like for you to prove that what I say is always racially motivated. You're a bigmouth Mitch, and there is nothing wrong with bigmouth people, assuming they don't just spout utter horseshit all the time.

"The difference is you seem to always point to it being racially motivated." - Mitchrapp

Your move. I'll accept either proof of what you posted, or a retraction/apology.