FISA Abuse

[biggunsbob]

Whatever it is called. I do not care. It will save my wife and I a lot of money. I am all for whatever plan covers all Americans! Call it whatever you want.

 

[sggatecl]

Whatever it is called. I do not care. It will save my wife and I a lot of money. I am all for whatever plan covers all Americans! Call it whatever you want.

Reality sadly is that the labels matter. If Obamacare was called Trumpcare, opinions on it would virtually flip.

Imagine if the Patriot Act was called the 'We've got our eye on all of you Act'.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I can’t get on board with punitive tax levels on people just because they can afford it but I’m all for taxing socialists more - assuming they’re not already paying more voluntarily. Are any of them paying more voluntarily?

Not everyone who can afford it - just rich liberal elites in entertainment - including athletes.

People who lucked into it, who are declared lefties.

Even higher if they support Bernie.

I’m a uniter, I like to find common ground.

It’s a simple concept - liberals hate the rich, and conservatives hate show biz lefties.

So why not target the one group both sides hates?

If people think all rich should have the tax fucked out of them, why would they object if we started with rich show biz lefties and see how that works out?

It’s win all around.

Also, there’s nothing more socialist than targeting specific groups for persecution.

It’s a page that’s literally torn from out of the Stalin playbook.

 

[tigermud]

Reality sadly is that the labels matter. If Obamacare was called Trumpcare, opinions on it would virtually flip.

Imagine if the Patriot Act was called the 'We've got our eye on all of you Act'.

Not true. Never liked the mandatory participation or face increasing fines each year if you decline. Was happy trump removed that requirement ALL services health care is not a right. Or shouldn’t be, wholeheartedly against government run HC for all

 

[tinselwolverine]

Reality sadly is that the labels matter. If Obamacare was called Trumpcare, opinions on it would virtually flip.

Imagine if the Patriot Act was called the 'We've got our eye on all of you Act'.

Imagine if Trump?s collective initiatives were called what they really are?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ILoQFpcfVqA

 

[tomdalton22]

Whatever it is called. I do not care. It will save my wife and I a lot of money. I am all for whatever plan covers all Americans! Call it whatever you want.

It's called duping slow people into thinking it's a good system

 

[biggunsbob]

It's called duping slow people into thinking it's a good system

Yeah let’s stick with the current system that keeps people sick and one That Americans can’t. I’m still paying on bills from last year.


I just saw a clip on YouTube lol Talk about Duping . It’s the GOP playbook.
Fear, Hatred, Gun, and abortion! Build that wall and close us in!
Fuck Trump.

Just like the same republican pundits like Trump Jr, Rush Limbaugh , and some Fox News shouting hag who said that Democratic politicians are saying they want people to die from this new Coronavirus Virus. So funny How Chuck Todd ask Pence who these politicians are and all he could come up with is a news reporter and had no name. Now that is what Fox News and Rush and the GOP do. Every day . Dupe the American masses via Fox News.
I’m done with this. I know the Democratic plan would help me and my wife. Especially Sanders plan. This shit we have now is just not affordable. I just can’t believe how many people watch Fox News and believe the shit that they produce.

 

[tomdalton22]

Yeah let?s stick with the current system that keeps people sick and one That Americans can?t. I?m still paying on bills from last year.


I just saw a clip on YouTube lol Talk about Duping . It?s the GOP playbook.
Fear, Hatred, Gun, and abortion! Build that wall and close us in!
Fuck Trump.

Just like the same republican pundits like Trump Jr, Rush Limbaugh , and some Fox News shouting hag who said that Democratic politicians are saying they want people to die from this new Coronavirus Virus. So funny How Chuck Todd ask Pence who these politicians are and all he could come up with is a news reporter and had no name. Now that is what Fox News and Rush and the GOP do. Every day . Dupe the American masses via Fox News.
I?m done with this. I know the Democratic plan would help me and my wife. Especially Sanders plan. This shit we have now is just not affordable. I just can?t believe how many people watch Fox News and believe the shit that they produce.

that's the great thing about this country, you don't have to watch Fox News if you don't want to.

 

[Spartanmack]

Yeah let’s stick with the current system that keeps people sick and one That Americans can’t. I’m still paying on bills from last year.


I just saw a clip on YouTube lol Talk about Duping . It’s the GOP playbook.
Fear, Hatred, Gun, and abortion! Build that wall and close us in!
Fuck Trump.

Just like the same republican pundits like Trump Jr, Rush Limbaugh , and some Fox News shouting hag who said that Democratic politicians are saying they want people to die from this new Coronavirus Virus. So funny How Chuck Todd ask Pence who these politicians are and all he could come up with is a news reporter and had no name. Now that is what Fox News and Rush and the GOP do. Every day . Dupe the American masses via Fox News.
I’m done with this. I know the Democratic plan would help me and my wife. Especially Sanders plan. This shit we have now is just not affordable. I just can’t believe how many people watch Fox News and believe the shit that they produce.

This is a complete fallacy - no one is saying keep the same system. I've been arguing on here for years that the system needs major reform. The difference is I'm not dumb enough to think the government can provide a better or cheaper system. Just look at the VA for a glimpse of what you'll get under government run healthcare.

You're the one being duped - you think the profit motive is what is ruining healthcare, but it's actually government intervention. We don't have a free market system, healthcare is one of the most regulated industries in the country. It's driving competition out of the system, pushing health insurance costs through the roof. And it's by design - these single payer politicians are DUPING you into believing that we tried the private route and it didn't work and the only solution is more government control. This is the playbook and they will pursue it until we have a completely government run system and it will suck. And you're falling for it - you think it's the free market that has failed when in fact it's government intervention that's caused virtually all these problems.

 

[Michchamp]

Medicare for all is not Medicare for all its single payer they use the words ?Medicare? for all to sell it as just simply an extension of Medicare that?s not what it is.

single payer is "Medicare for all" Lite. it's not the same

 

[Michchamp]

This is a complete fallacy - no one is saying keep the same system. I've been arguing on here for years that the system needs major reform. The difference is I'm not dumb enough to think the government can provide a better or cheaper system. Just look at the VA for a glimpse of what you'll get under government run healthcare.

I don't know if that's true. Medicare is a government run program and people like it a lot. Social security is a government run program and it's been amazingly successful. Both programs keep people alive who would otherwise be destitute, completely neglected, or a burden on younger generations of their families.



Also, what have you been "arguing on here for years?" It seems to me your only consistent position is "government bad, private sector good"... but what are you proposing in the alternative that would address the boondoggle of a current arrangement, that puts health insurance oligopolies profits first, and ensures medical care in the US costs many multiples of the same care in other countries?

You're the one being duped - you think the profit motive is what is ruining healthcare, but it's actually government intervention. We don't have a free market system, healthcare is one of the most regulated industries in the country. It's driving competition out of the system, pushing health insurance costs through the roof. And it's by design - these single payer politicians are DUPING you into believing that we tried the private route and it didn't work. And you're falling for it - you think it's the free market that has failed when in fact it's government intervention that's caused virtually all these problems.

...and government intervention is not by the design of the private profit motive/industry lobbyists?



Politicians are just handing out regional monopolies and agreeing to legislation that keeps them out of negotiating drug prices because they just love health insurers and big pharmaceutical companies?



Who's actually the one duped here?

 

[Spartanmack]

I don't know if that's true. Medicare is a government run program and people like it a lot. Social security is a government run program and it's been amazingly successful. Both programs keep people alive who would otherwise be destitute, completely neglected, or a burden on younger generations of their families.

It's true. Medicare is a government run program and people don't like it a lot - if they did, way more doctors would accept it but they don't, because they don't like it. And people don't like it a lot because a lot of doctors don't accept it.

Doctors basically break even on medicare patients because reimbursement rates are so low, which means if you put everyone on Medicare, you have to increase reimbursement rates (i.e. costs) by a lot unless you want doctors to starve.

Also, it's absurd to call a structurally bankrupt program "amazingly successful" especially when you compare it's performance to the what the performance would be if payers put that money into a 401(k) plan.

Also, what have you been "arguing on here for years?" It seems to me your only consistent position is "government bad, private sector good"... but what are you proposing in the alternative that would address the boondoggle of a current arrangement, that puts health insurance oligopolies profits first, and ensures medical care in the US costs many multiples of the same care in other countries?

Is this a real question? If it is, it just proves you don't ever read or consider counter points to your arguments - something you accuse others of doing even though we have proof that's not true. Try to count how many times you've posted an article you haven't read that Tom or I read and then point out to you that it doesn't say what you think it does? Anyway, if it's a real question I'll repeat if for the 100th time:

1) Insurance reform/deregulation - get rid of the insurance oligopolies, end the cozy relationship they have with elected officials. allow customers to shop across state lines for health insurance, increase competition to drive down prices (the opposite of what happens when Gov't gets in bed with insurance companies).
2) Deregulate the medical industry - allow for competition to drive down prices like what we saw with Lasik surgery - used to be about $6k/eye. It wasn't overly regulated and also wasn’t covered and therefore also not controlled by insurance companies so the private sector was able to allow competition to drive the cost down to about $2k per eye in just a few short years. The same could happen for medical imaging, diagnostic and surgical centers, doctor visits etc, etc. Right now the amount of red tape and outright restrictions are keeping the cost of these items artificially high.
3) Tort reform - malpractice insurance is outrageously expensive. OBGYN's currently pay something like 25% of their revenue for insurance. That's INSANE. According to the AMA, 34% of physicians are sued at some point in their career. Also INSANE. There should be a penalty on filing frivolous laswsuits but your industry has one of the most powerful lobbies in the country and they love those big contingency fees (weird that you never mention that when you bitch about the undue influence of lobbyists), so fat chance of that ever happening.
4) Automate medical records to eliminate duplicate procedures as well as prevent injury and death from incompatible prescriptions.

None of that will kill innovation and discovery of new medical devices, techniques and drugs like you will get with government takeovers and price controls. It will continue to flourish here like it does nowhere else in the world.

...and government intervention is not by the design of the private profit motive/industry lobbyists?

Politicians are just handing out regional monopolies and agreeing to legislation that keeps them out of negotiating drug prices because they just love health insurers and big pharmaceutical companies?

Who's actually the one duped here?

You. You're the one being duped. And no, they're not doing it because they love health insurers and big pharma companies and you know it - the politicians are doing it because they love THEIR MONEY. It's government intervention and greedy career politicians that enables these outcomes. it's not by design of the private profit motivated companies - it's a natural consequence of giving too much power to bureaucrats who can be bought too easily. Take that power away from them, don't give them more because then you'll end up like the Scandanavians who have seen life expectancies and medical outcomes decline since adopting your preferred programs.

 

[Thumb]

maybe you should learn a little about taxation and simple economics. These plans will require an increase on taxes for everyone.

Yes, but overall the expected tax increase will still likely be cheaper than the ridiculous insurance premiums many Americans have to pay, that's what most people can't understand. They just hear "tax increase" and go in to a Rush Limbaugh style tirade without ever thinking about it.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Yes, but overall the expected tax increase will still likely be cheaper than the ridiculous insurance premiums many Americans have to pay, that's what most people can't understand. They just hear "tax increase" and go in to a Rush Limbaugh style tirade without ever thinking about it.

I think it?s a case by case basis. Point #3 in this suggests that private insurance still plays a large role in countries with so called ?universal care.?

I think ?access for all? should be the goal. Both sides have wiffed on this.

Also let?s go ahead and do the deregulation stuff the conservatives talk about - how can it hurt?

 

[biggunsbob]

that's the great thing about this country, you don't have to watch Fox News if you don't want to.

I don’t , and no one should. Talk about Fake news. They are the worst of all the Tv networks . I sure would be nice to see Trump call them out.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I don’t , and no one should. Talk about Fake news. They are the worst of all the Tv networks . I sure would be nice to see Trump call them out.

You’re kidding, right?

That “love fest,” however much it was or wasn’t, has been over for a while.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9TKowTztB28

 

[Thumb]

I think it?s a case by case basis. Point #3 in this suggests that private insurance still plays a large role in countries with so called ?universal care.?

I think ?access for all? should be the goal. Both sides have wiffed on this.

Also let?s go ahead and do the deregulation stuff the conservatives talk about - how can it hurt?

Yes, which is why I said cheaper than what Many Americans pay in insurance premiums. Taxes are going to have to go up, Period. At the end of the day, John Q. Public will probably be happier with whatever leaves him with more money in his wallet at the end of the day, if it's more in taxes; less in premiums people will still complain even if overall they're paying less, because, you know, taxes = bad. :shrug:

 

[biggunsbob]

You?re kidding, right?

That ?love fest,? however much it was or wasn?t, has been over for a while.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9TKowTztB28

Give me a break. We all know which network has a bitch love with Trump. He practically used Fox News talking points most of his days in office . What was this a 1-10 off out of a million on the other networks. Who cares what he says about Fix news. It?s a rarity when he does. That network is so far up Trumps Asshole it comes out Orange ⎌snot from his nostrils. Unlike say how he bashes other news outlets. He is the president. Act fucking presidential.

 

[biggunsbob]

This is a complete fallacy - no one is saying keep the same system. I've been arguing on here for years that the system needs major reform. The difference is I'm not dumb enough to think the government can provide a better or cheaper system. Just look at the VA for a glimpse of what you'll get under government run healthcare.

You're the one being duped - you think the profit motive is what is ruining healthcare, but it's actually government intervention. We don't have a free market system, healthcare is one of the most regulated industries in the country. It's driving competition out of the system, pushing health insurance costs through the roof. And it's by design - these single payer politicians are DUPING you into believing that we tried the private route and it didn't work and the only solution is more government control. This is the playbook and they will pursue it until we have a completely government run system and it will suck. And you're falling for it - you think it's the free market that has failed when in fact it's government intervention that's caused virtually all these problems.[/QUOTE

So that was why the republicans gutted Obamacare at every corner ? I know when I have been duped. Republicans do it non stop. Yeah so stop trying to tell me who made it so it wouldn?t work like it should. Jesus let?s go full private fucking health insurance so I can get fucked even more. I know what?s not working so let?s try something different.

 

[tigermud]

What this now?

A federal judge has ordered Hillary Clinton to sit down for a sworn deposition regarding her private email account and server as well as activity related to the 2012 Benghazi attack.
U.S. District Court Royce Lamberth issued the order Monday in connection with a years-old Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed by Judicial Watch seeking emails related to the 2012 attack on the U.S. embassy in Benghazi, Libya, that ended with four American diplomats killed, including Ambassador Christopher Stevens.

Judge Lamberth wrote that Clinton’s prior written testimony over her use of a private server was “incomplete, unhelpful, or cursory, at best.”

Not sure if it’s true only see it at fake news site

https://www.infowars.com/federal-court-orders-hillary-clinton-deposition-over-emails-benghazi/

Either way waste of time this has already been squashed more times than I can count