Game 10: Lions @ Giants Thread

[boogerlovejoy]

i get their point....and yes youre not going to hear from me about DC and Goff anytime soon. But you also have to look at the GREAT teams in the NFL and what do they have at QB?...Mahomes, Allen etc.

But lets also look at the overall roster talent. You can't just gloss over that portion of the equation. I'm going to cut Tom's list down to who I feel are the GREAT teams...

Hurts - Most talented roster in the NFL
Mahomes - Very good roster
Lamar Jackson - Great roster
Allen - 2nd best roster in the NFL
Dak/Rush - Top 5 roster.
Jimmy G - 3rd or 4th best roster in the NFL[/QUOTE]

The 6 best teams ALSO happen to have what is likely the 6 best overall ROSTERS. I'm not bashing any of their quarterbacks.....but give each one of those teams David Blough as their starter and they are still really good football teams. I think the exception to this is the Jets. Really good young roster with a SHIT quarterback. Zach Wilson is a joke.

I'm convinced that Philly could win with David Blough at QB. They are stacked everywhere.

I do think it's more likely that a team with a good or elite QB wins it all.....and I'm not against upgrading the QB position. I just wouldn't do it in this draft. There will almost always be 1 or 2 QB's available either in each off season or in the next draft that would be an upgrade over Goff.....lets build a top tier ROSTER first. Having talent available to trade is also a good chip to have.

 

[LKP]

But lets also look at the overall roster talent. You can't just gloss over that portion of the equation. I'm going to cut Tom's list down to who I feel are the GREAT teams...

Hurts - Most talented roster in the NFL
Mahomes - Very good roster
Lamar Jackson - Great roster
Allen - 2nd best roster in the NFL
Dak/Rush - Top 5 roster.
Jimmy G - 3rd or 4th best roster in the NFL

Agree it's more than just QB.

They are trying to build a top tier roster and they can get a QB with one first round pick and still continue to build the roster with other first rounder, two 2nd round picks, 3rd round pick and FA with some money to spend. Now if they don't feel a QB is worthy of that 1st round pick (say Stroud and Young are gone and they don't like the others) then that is a different story.

I think we need to get a QB this year so he can gain experience. Having a good to great roster with a rookie QB in 2024 could cause other problems with rookie mistakes and lots of pressure on the rookie to win right away. Goff could do well in 2023 or he could fuck up 2023 too, it's literally 50/50 with him too.

49ers tried to move on and are very lucky to have kept Jimmy G (shoulder injury kept him from being traded). I think we'll need to restructure one more time Goff for cap space to have that option (And Goff on a much lower 2023 cap hit) even if we take a QB. FA and big restructures for FA happen before the draft.

That being said, rookie QB is a crapshoot still even with cap relief. Stroud, Young, Levis, Hooker (ACL) all have questions on them too. And will there be any late riser QBs too.

 

[tomdalton22]

I have no idea if Stroud or Young are going to be pro bowl caliber players. I do think that both will be gone by the time the Lions pick. If I were the Lions, I would NOT trade up to grab one of them. I would be looking to trade back a little bit to gain more picks and really build a quality roster that is deep. I would maybe target one "difference maker" on defense with one of the first round picks and then just grab as many quality players as possible. I would have done the same thing last year vs. moving up to grab Williams.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

I have no idea if Stroud or Young are going to be pro bowl caliber players. I do think that both will be gone by the time the Lions pick. If I were the Lions, I would NOT trade up to grab one of them. I would be looking to trade back a little bit to gain more picks and really build a quality roster that is deep. I would maybe target one "difference maker" on defense with one of the first round picks and then just grab as many quality players as possible. I would have done the same thing last year vs. moving up to grab Williams.

Well, the Rams might just shut down Kupp and Stafford for the year. That would essentially guarantee a top 5 pick from them. If everything went really good, we could have the #1 pick from the Rams. LOL.

We need that kind of luck. Get the #1 overall. Have a couple teams like the Jets and Houston (who will have 2 1st round picks...theirs and NO's) fall in love with ONE QB.....and trade down just enough to grab a top tier DL and pick up an additional 1st and 2nd.

OK. OK. OK. I'm dreaming. These are the dreams of Lions fans. Perfect draft scenarios. Not playoff wins or Super Bowls. Draft scenarios!!

 

[LKP]

I have no idea if Stroud or Young are going to be pro bowl caliber players. I do think that both will be gone by the time the Lions pick. If I were the Lions, I would NOT trade up to grab one of them. I would be looking to trade back a little bit to gain more picks and really build a quality roster that is deep. I would maybe target one "difference maker" on defense with one of the first round picks and then just grab as many quality players as possible. I would have done the same thing last year vs. moving up to grab Williams.

Agree don't give up the farm to trade up. But depends on FA if they make some long-term signings to good players or not for how many draft picks we need to have. And other cuts too.

Like if they cut Vaitai will need a RG, don't re-sign Jamaal will need a RB. Cut Romeo Okwara for cap space will need another DE but might not cut him if he comes back from injury and does well. Levi not healthy and cut Brockers, need a DT for sure. Can Paschal move inside though. Will they re-sign Cominsky for DE/DT play too.

Don't resign Anzalone which we hope and you need another MIKE LB to pair with Rodriguez and Barnes.

Walker health depends on safety need or not. Can Ife do something. Jospeh will be a starter. Elliot is average and could be re-signed cheap. Is that all we need if we get other areas. Can Okudah, Jacobs and a re-signed Harris at nickel do well like they are now. But we really should upgrade at CB2 and probably nickel.

Jameson Williams trade up wasn't bad since we only lost the 3rd rounder and still had the 3rd comp pick for Joseph.

They thought Williams was a difference maker. We will see if he helps us this year and then the next 4 years. WR is off the board as a need at least with Williams, Reynolds and St Brown all back. Would we have taken Watson at 32 anyway? Or Cine and not Joseph. I really like Jospeh and his ball hawking. So that leaves just the 3rd round pick for an additional player.

We do need a QB though for 2023. We'll see how they obtain that QB and what they do with Goff and what that cap space means for Lions FA additions.

 

[mhughes0021]

I wasnt sure if Tom was reinforcing my point or trying to disprove it but id say th top of his list is a pretty strong QB group made up of either former MVPs or current contenders for MVP minus Tannehill. Cousins is a fraud too but he was carried with an easy schedule and being part of the worst division in football this year.

Hurts
Mahomes
Cousins
Tua
Tannehill
Lamar Jackson
Allen

 

[tomdalton22]

I wasnt sure if Tom was reinforcing my point or trying to disprove it but id say th top of his list is a pretty strong QB group made up of either former MVPs or current contenders for MVP minus Tannehill. Cousins is a fraud too but he was carried with an easy schedule and being part of the worst division in football this year.

Hurts
Mahomes
Cousins
Tua
Tannehill
Lamar Jackson
Allen

I was just pointing out that there is more than one way to build a winning team (as far as the QB is concerned)

 

[mhughes0021]

I was just pointing out that there is more than one way to build a winning team (as far as the QB is concerned)

Id agree...theres the flaccos of the world, when the Giants turned it on, and basically anytime Chicago makes a deep run its an elite defense.

But 85% of the time its an elite QB making the deep playoff run: Mahomes, Allen, Brady, Rodgers

Not trying to start shit but yes....i left Stafford off that list. Last 5 games the Rams defense averaged 17 ppg. Their defense turned it on. Stafford had an amazing games against TB and SF. Imo he shit the bed in the super bowl and only threw for 202 yards against an average at best Bengals D. Defense goes away...LT retires....and poof stafford is back to leading a shit team.

We're also seeing this year what happens when you have a great QB and nothing else around him...like in GB and TB.

I dont think it every hurts your team to have a great QB...so why not try to get one? The only time you get hurt is when you overpay an average QB that cant carry your team...hence my argument against stafford all those years. And my argument against Goff moving forward.

 

[LKP]

Id agree...theres the flaccos of the world, when the Giants turned it on, and basically anytime Chicago makes a deep run its an elite defense.

But 85% of the time its an elite QB making the deep playoff run: Mahomes, Allen, Brady, Rodgers

Not trying to start shit but yes....i left Stafford off that list. Last 5 games the Rams defense averaged 17 ppg. Their defense turned it on. Stafford had an amazing games against TB and SF. Imo he shit the bed in the super bowl and only threw for 202 yards against an average at best Bengals D. Defense goes away...LT retires....and poof stafford is back to leading a shit team.

Stafford made big plays when needed in the Super Bowl finding Kupp. Kupp never played like that before Stafford. Yes the Rams fell apart this year, Yes they lost their LT and defense and run game and Kupp was hurt, Stafford hurt his elbow and now concussions. He should be on the list and he won a Super Bowl with big plays by him in the playoffs and 41 TDs in the regular season, 4886 yards, 8.1 YPA and 68% completion. 41 TDs and big playoff throws. Stafford is on that list. You act like the Rams D carried him lol. But good for the Lions with the Rams falling apart now.

Agree you need the QB and Goff isn't it despite his solid QB rating and better game management recently. I think if the roster was built up they could make a deep playoff run with Goff though but I highly doubt a Super Bowl win.

Lions are going to have to gamble on another 1st round QB and hope we get lucky in finding the right one or the right one falling to us and the Lions pulling the trigger. If they trade up, we'll see what they give up and if they can still build. But someone has to develop that QB too. Ben Johnson have some faith but less with Brunell. Half of it is development, half of it is 1st round talent of size, speed, accuracy and arm strength.