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Game 12: Packers @ Lions *Thursday Night* Thread

inkfreq said:
I actually think the refs are under the microscope way too much, under the circumstances.

An employer who doesn't equip his employees with the tools to be successful can't complain when they are not successful. The NFL has access to a wide array of technology they aren't using to it's fullest to make these refs better. That's on the league, not the refs.

You've seen, undoubtedly, the coaches and players studying plays on the Microsoft Surface on the sidelines. Those are equipped with instant, on-demand, replays from every camera angle. There's a guy in the booth that hits a button to begin the "play selection" before the snap, and he hits the button again to set the playhead at the end of the play.

If a QB throws a pick, by the time he gets to the sidelines, he can see every angle of that play and see where he went wrong on the Surface.

Why do the refs not have access to that to make sure they get the flags right? According to the league, it's because they don't want to remove the "human element" of the game.

Well, that's stupid. The league is under fire from every angle for these bad calls, and their response is to change crews as a form of "punishment". Don't punish the refs if you're refusing to give them what they would need to get it right.
Click to expand...

I don't get it either. There's no reason that a team of refs shouldn't go beyond the field. They could easily hire a team of officials behind the scenes assigned to each game that watches every player on every play with immediate review of every flag with a direct line to the head official. It would hardly lengthen games, at least no more than on field discussions. The NFL can afford it too, that's if they actually care about overall officiating quality, who knows maybe controversy benefits them in some way.

The human element is still necessary, seeing as how holding would probably be called on every play, personal judgment calls have some value. That's where accountability is necessary, though if the tools or training are lacking, that's on the NFL.

I don't watch much NHL, but I feel they did a good thing with reviews from up top. Reviewing penalties is easy, non-calls not so much. To make things worse, it almost feels like the NFL rules are poorly defined or poorly interpreted. There's no excuse for different decisions on similar events week-to-week.

I'm all over the place here, but this is a multi-level issue. I like to keep it simple though, play better and the number of close, controversial situations will go down, thus hopefully reducing opportunities for bad calls.
 
They are horribly defined. What exactly is a catch anymore? Why does a receiver need to catch a ball and maintain through the entire out of bounds process? Once you get two feet down and the ball is in your hands, it's a catch.

The fact that the NFL doesn't have full-time officials is gross. It's a billion dollar league, and yet their officiating crew have jobs as lawyers and teachers. They should be studying the game non-stop. When the season isn't going on, they need to be living officiating. Whether it be studying at conferences, going to meetings, traveling around the world and officiating local football games in the offseason, whatever. Just needs to change.
 
Regardless of the call and no calls, the turning point in the game was losing Ola. He was doing a great job stabilizing the right side until he got hurt. Then that POS Waddle comes in and gets 2 penalties and plays like crap. I hope they cut him today.

That and, well, trying to run Bell up the middle vs a 9+ man front multiple times in a row. WTF did they think was going to happen with a guy that has no burst?
 
Playing not to lose. I don't know who established the rules that when there is 3 minutes or so left, you can only run-run-run-punt.
 
The turning point was the second fumble period....

Up 20-7 Lions opt for a Lombardi style slow drop back pass.. What was it 5 to 7 steps. and Riddick left in to help on Peppers (If I am remember it right.. I like throwing on first down but that formation looked so predictable..

Short fast quick passes.. Get the momentum back.
 
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biggunsbob said:
The turning point was the second fumble period....

Up 20-7 Lions opt for a Lombardi style slow drop back pass.. What was it 5 to 7 steps. and Riddick left in to help on Peppers (If I am remember it right.. I like throwing on first down but that formation looked so predictable..

Short fast quick passes.. Get the momentum back.
Click to expand...
Riddick went out left, but Peppers put a filthy outside-inside move on Reif. That's not a mistake on anyone, just a hell of a great move by a savy vet.
 
lucke said:
Regardless of the call and no calls, the turning point in the game was losing Ola. He was doing a great job stabilizing the right side until he got hurt. Then that POS Waddle comes in and gets 2 penalties and plays like crap. I hope they cut him today.

That and, well, trying to run Bell up the middle vs a 9+ man front multiple times in a row. WTF did they think was going to happen with a guy that has no burst?
Click to expand...

This is true one of many turning points, waddle was absolutely terrible and killed momentum more than once in the 4th what happened to that guy I thought we was decent last year, this year he's terrible
 
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Make no mistake, Caldwell lost this game. He has always been a conservative style coach and this is the result of that style.

Of course, the flip side is being aggressive. That style often leads to more turnovers and lower Time of Possession. The best teams are ones that have balance and know the appropriate time to move the needle toward being more aggressive or more conservative.

Run, Run, Run is too fucking conservative. If you get a 1st down, you can use Victory Formation. When the D has 9 in the box and blitzing, you have to call a misdirection, screen, quick slant...something that can beat the heat the D is bringing and preferably use their aggressiveness against them.

The "we thought they would lateral" excuse is BS (obviously) because they had at least 2 jerseys in the end zone with numbers that were in the 50s, meaning they had LBs on the field instead of a max number of DBs. You want DBs vs a max lateral attack, not LBs. You need your fastest and quickest guys to be able to cover the options. Add to that the option to cover the Hail Mary by putting CJ in the end zone. That's if you decide to defend more conservatively. If you want to be more aggressive, then you blitz and prevent the QB from throwing the bomb which means they would need to check to a quick pass and try the max lateral attack...so again, better to have DBs than LBs. You can still blitz with DBs, but if they get the quick pass off for the laterals, then you have the personnel to more quickly get down the field to defend vs the laterals. Either way, the LBs should not be on the field. If you don't have enough DBs due to injury, then you grab the guys who tackle well enough to play on STs, whether they be RBs, TEs, or WRs...you want speed, quickness, and tackling ability....and put CJ in the end zone. The only way you have LBs on the field is if you replace the DL with LBs. You are not concerned about a rushing TD, so you definitely don't need DTs and even DEs are questionable...though you keep Ansah out there as he is obviously fast and quick enough to play in that situation and transition appropriately.

How professionals cannot figure this concept out is beyond me. They have tunnel vision due to the historically "acceptable" way of doing things.

Still, never should get to that point. Becoming conservative, settling for FGs instead of being more aggressive and going for TDs, not putting in a legit effort to get a 1st down to seal the victory, combined with bad ref calls, and finally using a Prevent Defense, which did its job by preventing victory. Aside from the refs, this is all on Caldwell being too conservative and not having the balls to put games away. Not that I expect more out of him...that is exactly who he was when he was hired, so it isn't like I expect him to change. Well, change jobs/teams would be welcome, but I digress.
 
Boomer Esaison in Rome show said in real time it looked like a facemask
but upon review it wasn't..
He said NFL should use replay in the last 2 minutes of games to get it right.

He also said it was not pass interference on that pass play.
 
My take...

Abdul Quddus tackled the WR prior to the ball getting there. GB woulda won on a 35 yd fg attempt if the game was called right

Obviously not a facemask....they should be able to review critical calls to get it right. But they cant....so we get screwed. If runners that get hit in the facemask inadvertently is a penalty then there should be a penalty on every single play of the game. and we all know that's ridiculous.

Coaching showed why they suck so bad in this game:
played to lose running it 3 times to give Arod the ball with only a 2 point lead...on purpose
dumbass thinks the other team is going to lateral it from 60 yds away
dumbass doesn't put calvin in
dumbass is playing press man coverage on a hail mary
no one goes for the ball on a hail mary

Offense sucked ass for 3 qtrs.
 
I agree on that first part. Everyone seems to be overlooking that. He had his hand wrapped around Abrederis's neck.
 
Some penalties should be immediately reviewed by the booth, particularly black and white calls. I can understand the confusion in real time, but with a penalty like grabbing the face mask, it was grabbed or it wasn't, there are no other possibilities. This could be resolved, given the proper replays and angles, in a matter of seconds with a dedicated team.

I actually find it hilarious that the various networks hire former officials to evaluate a penalty situation immediately, yet it doesn't seem like the NFL does the same (I don't know this for sure, just a hunch).
 
I have no idea why networks hire guys like Carey or Perrera to basically stick up for the officials 99/100 times. They'll defend the zebras even if a call is horrific.
 
dubbsco said:
They are horribly defined. What exactly is a catch anymore? Why does a receiver need to catch a ball and maintain through the entire out of bounds process? Once you get two feet down and the ball is in your hands, it's a catch.

The fact that the NFL doesn't have full-time officials is gross. It's a billion dollar league, and yet their officiating crew have jobs as lawyers and teachers. They should be studying the game non-stop. When the season isn't going on, they need to be living officiating. Whether it be studying at conferences, going to meetings, traveling around the world and officiating local football games in the offseason, whatever. Just needs to change.
Click to expand...

I don't remember exactly where I heard it but the refs union is the reason that they are not full time. Something about not being disciplined. But the NFL should have full time refs. The next contract negotiations should address this issue.

Edit: This article explains why aren't full time.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2015/12/02/dean-blandino-referees-mistakes/76678586/
 
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This one is pretty brilliant. Hitler describes the Lions loss...and every argument about the Lions. He's speaking German but the subtitles have curse words in case that's an issue if you watch it at work.

https://youtu.be/f4_dem3cLuA
 
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