Game 145 Tigers vs indians Wednesday, Sept 13, 2917

[Mitchrapp]

the best prospects are usually proven in AA but that doesn't mean they are the best players yet. AAA usually consists of more experienced players that would be ready to fill in for the ML team if needed.

AAA is call up's when a guy gets hurt, a guy that flips between MLB and AAA freely, MLB players who are coming back from injury etc.. AA is where it's at. Doesn't mean you can't get to AAA and then be a solid pro.. But its AA that has the talent.

 

[tomdalton22]

AAA is call up's when a guy gets hurt, a guy that flips between MLB and AAA freely, MLB players who are coming back from injury etc.. AA is where it's at. Doesn't mean you can't get to AAA and then be a solid pro.. But its AA that has the talent.

I don't think you understand what I am saying. I agree that the best prospects are usually in AA, but that doesn't mean that the competition is better in AA than AAA. In AA there are a wide range of players in terms of how far they are in their development. The ceilings on the players in AA are usually higher but the AAA players are typically much further in their development.

 

[turok]

Good for the tribe. It's an incredible feat that a team can have more consecutive wins than they do in total fans but they have found a way, congrats.

Which is why I would prefer the astros winning the ALCS/AL Pennant.

 

[SpartyNash]

When you have to win your last 6 to avoid 120 losses, that's extremely disappointing to me. 2008 ... I just came to the conclusion they were overrated.

I think that falls under more embarrassing than disappointing. To me disappointing means that at some point going into or during the season you had a belief that the team could contend for something of significance. Which to me is why 2013 is the most disappointing season in my lifetime, losing to a total fluke team due to choke jobs and awful managing.

 

[jas5lf]

Good God, a third of their win streak is compliments of the Tigers. Lol.

 

[tomdalton22]

Good God, a third of their win streak is compliments of the Tigers. Lol.

they will probably put an * next to the streak because of it!

 

[jas5lf]

they will probably put an * next to the streak because of it!

Seriously, 7 of the wins are against a Triple-A squad.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I don't think you understand what I am saying. I agree that the best prospects are usually in AA, but that doesn't mean that the competition is better in AA than AAA. In AA there are a wide range of players in terms of how far they are in their development. The ceilings on the players in AA are usually higher but the AAA players are typically much further in their development.

But it is better.. because you might have the next JV in AA right now or the next Mike Trout etc. Just my opinion of course. As you said best prospects are usually in AA so doesn't that mean the competition is better? 1+1 is 2?

 

[tomdalton22]

But it is better.. because you might have the next JV in AA right now or the next Mike Trout etc. Just my opinion of course. As you said best prospects are usually in AA so doesn't that mean the competition is better? 1+1 is 2?

no because most of the guys in AA aren't as polished as AAA guys. The Next JV might be in AA but he is years away from the big leagues. A lot of the guys in AAA are an injury away from the big leagues.

It's like an 8th Grader who might be the next great NBA player playing against a college player who would be a fringe pro. The college player may not have the raw ability but has the experience and at that point in time, is the better player.

 

[kalinecountry]

http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2017/09/tigers_didnt_try_to_hit_umpire.html#incart_river_index
Tigers furious at claim they intentionally hit umpire after ejections.
Mlive

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/m...re-quinn-wolcott-cleveland-indians/663994001/
Detroit Tigers pitcher Buck Farmer says he didn't mean to bean umpire.
Freep

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sp...sinuation-purposely-hitting-umpire/663737001/
Tigers irate over insinuation of purposely hitting umpire.
Detnews

http://detroitsportsnation.com/detr...cks-intentionally-let-pitch-hit-umpire/95737/
Did Detroit Tigers C John Hicks intentionally let pitch hit umpire?
DSN

 

[kalinecountry]

http://detroitsportsnation.com/detr...fans-trash-talk-each-other-during-game/95748/
Miguel Cabrera and Indians fans trash talk each other during game.
DSN

 

[Mitchrapp]

no because most of the guys in AA aren't as polished as AAA guys. The Next JV might be in AA but he is years away from the big leagues. A lot of the guys in AAA are an injury away from the big leagues.

It's like an 8th Grader who might be the next great NBA player playing against a college player who would be a fringe pro. The college player may not have the raw ability but has the experience and at that point in time, is the better player.

The stars are.. Polished as ever. At least for ml ball. AA has better talent, they can beat AAA teams in a game. AAA is for players like Buck Farmer, AAA to a Pro in case of injury. That's it. They're older but basically useless. Not all, but mostly.

 

[Mitchrapp]

http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2017/09/tigers_didnt_try_to_hit_umpire.html#incart_river_index
Tigers furious at claim they intentionally hit umpire after ejections.
Mlive

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/m...re-quinn-wolcott-cleveland-indians/663994001/
Detroit Tigers pitcher Buck Farmer says he didn't mean to bean umpire.
Freep

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sp...sinuation-purposely-hitting-umpire/663737001/
Tigers irate over insinuation of purposely hitting umpire.
Detnews

http://detroitsportsnation.com/detr...cks-intentionally-let-pitch-hit-umpire/95737/
Did Detroit Tigers C John Hicks intentionally let pitch hit umpire?
DSN

I'd have respect if they did it on purpose.

 

[Rebbiv]

Most MLB superstars either don't play in AAA or spend very small amount of time in AAA. They jump from A+ or AA to the majors. Trout, Harper, Strasburg, Verlander, Cabrera, Kershaw, on and on.

Average age of a MLB Player = 28.6

Average age of MLB Rookie = 24.5

Average age of AAA Player = 28.2

Average age of AA Player = 23.8

Average age of A+ Player = 22.4

Average age of A Player = 21.2

Average age of A- Player = 20.9

Average age of Rookie ball = 19.4

Hence why the assertion that by the time a player is 25, he pretty much is what he is without some huge mechanical change. AAA is were you find the organizational fodder. 31-year olds trying to hold onto their dream...Alex Presley, Efren Navarro, Arecenio Leon. While it is possible to see a future MLB superstar spending a full season at AAA, it is very rare. Additionally, anytime you see a player repeat seasons of AAA (Moya, Collins, JaCoby Jones, etc), their odds of being a useful MLB player greatly reduces the more time they spend in AAA. It also isn't a good sign when a player repeats AA, or even A+.

So when a "prospect" list shows Mike Gerber (25) as a Tiger's prospect and he hasn't even spent much time above AA, we know there is concern. It means he played the lower levels at advanced age. Or even Myles Jaye. How does 25-year old Myles Jaye still be considered a prospect? Because the Tigers system is void of worthy additions to the list. And when they trade from Dawel Lugo, people are giddy. Yet, by most career paths, he should be full time in MLB in 2018 or at least 2019. And I doubt he is "ready" by 2018 and certainly questionable for 2019, when he will be almost 25.

Anyways, I would guess that less than 10% of a AAA roster are considered "true" prospects. Where most on a AA Roster are.

 

[tomdalton22]

Most MLB superstars either don't play in AAA or spend very small amount of time in AAA. They jump from A+ or AA to the majors. Trout, Harper, Strasburg, Verlander, Cabrera, Kershaw, on and on.

Average age of a MLB Player = 28.6

Average age of MLB Rookie = 24.5

Average age of AAA Player = 28.2

Average age of AA Player = 23.8

Average age of A+ Player = 22.4

Average age of A Player = 21.2

Average age of A- Player = 20.9

Average age of Rookie ball = 19.4

Hence why the assertion that by the time a player is 25, he pretty much is what he is without some huge mechanical change. AAA is were you find the organizational fodder. 31-year olds trying to hold onto their dream...Alex Presley, Efren Navarro, Arecenio Leon. While it is possible to see a future MLB superstar spending a full season at AAA, it is very rare. Additionally, anytime you see a player repeat seasons of AAA (Moya, Collins, JaCoby Jones, etc), their odds of being a useful MLB player greatly reduces the more time they spend in AAA. It also isn't a good sign when a player repeats AA, or even A+.

So when a "prospect" list shows Mike Gerber (25) as a Tiger's prospect and he hasn't even spent much time above AA, we know there is concern. It means he played the lower levels at advanced age. Or even Myles Jaye. How does 25-year old Myles Jaye still be considered a prospect? Because the Tigers system is void of worthy additions to the list. And when they trade from Dawel Lugo, people are giddy. Yet, by most career paths, he should be full time in MLB in 2018 or at least 2019. And I doubt he is "ready" by 2018 and certainly questionable for 2019, when he will be almost 25.

Anyways, I would guess that less than 10% of a AAA roster are considered "true" prospects. Where most on a AA Roster are.

I agree with most of this...but the players are AAA are more similar to ML players than those at AA due to most of the AAA players being "fully developed".

 

[Rebbiv]

I agree with most of this...but the players are AAA are more similar to ML players than those at AA due to most of the AAA players being "fully developed".

If "fully developed" means "replacement" level, then I agree.

Your analogy about an 8th grader versus fringe college is a tad off. It is more like the guy off bagging groceries, but still can play. One still has a decent hope of an MLB career, the other doesn't. I have seen Matt den dekker play for 2 years in Syracuse. He is a nobody of a player. The fact he even made the Tiger's 40-man roster is concerning. He first hit AAA in 2012. If you think he is more similar to a MLB player than Jeimer Candelario, you couldn't be more wrong.

 

[tomdalton22]

If "fully developed" means "replacement" level, then I agree.

Your analogy about an 8th grader versus fringe college is a tad off. It is more like the guy off bagging groceries, but still can play. One still has a decent hope of an MLB career, the other doesn't. I have seen Matt den dekker play for 2 years in Syracuse. He is a nobody of a player. The fact he even made the Tiger's 40-man roster is concerning. He first hit AAA in 2012. If you think he is more similar to a MLB player than Jeimer Candelario, you couldn't be more wrong.

of course not. Mitch and I got into this conversation regarding Candelario's performance at the AAA level. He was saying the competition is inferior at the AAA level compared to AA. I was trying to explain that just because the better prospects are at AA doesn't necessarily mean the competition is better. "polished" 25-31 year olds with less talent can offer better competition than 20-23 year old prospects that haven't developed.

 

[Mitchrapp]

of course not. Mitch and I got into this conversation regarding Candelario's performance at the AAA level. He was saying the competition is inferior at the AAA level compared to AA. I was trying to explain that just because the better prospects are at AA doesn't necessarily mean the competition is better. "polished" 25-31 year olds with less talent can offer better competition than 20-23 year old prospects that haven't developed.

It is inferior..

 

[Rebbiv]

of course not. Mitch and I got into this conversation regarding Candelario's performance at the AAA level. He was saying the competition is inferior at the AAA level compared to AA. I was trying to explain that just because the better prospects are at AA doesn't necessarily mean the competition is better. "polished" 25-31 year olds with less talent can offer better competition than 20-23 year old prospects that haven't developed.

So Candelario facing the next Kershaw in AA is inferior to Myles Jaye at AAA?

I don't think so.

 

[tomdalton22]

So Candelario facing the next Kershaw in AA is inferior to Myles Jaye at AAA?

I don't think so.

so you contend that AA is full of future Kershaws? For every future Kershaw in AA there are 50 undeveloped Myles Jaye's in AA "that are inferior to the current Myles Jaye"