Game 158 Tigers vs. twins September 26, 2018 8:00 start

[tomdalton22]

What part of "for the Tigers" did you not get?

My comment had nothing to do with what would be considered a #1 for winning teams, in MLB or even competitive teams with .500 records.

well, every team has a #1 starter then, regardless of how good or bad they are.

 

[turok]

II MLB is going to continue a 1 game WC playoff in both leagues, then it should end the divisional format, and go back to the pre-'69 league format. 5 teams in each league could still have a shot @ the postseason, with the 4th and 5th place teams playing in a one game elimination.

 

[turok]

well, every team has a #1 starter then, regardless of how good or bad they are.

Steve Carlton ring any bells?

 

[tomdalton22]

I think divisions are good for all team sports. They create rivalries and more game within a division will typically make travel easier.

 

[turok]

One of the most famous sports rivalries in the 90s, if not NHL history was the Red Wings vs Avalanche, who played in the same conference, but not the same division. It isn't impossible to have rivalries, just b/c two or more teams play in different divisions. Same with the Pistons vs Celtics in the late 80s, and the Celtics vs Lakers. But moving to another league or conference killed off some historically famous rivalries, like the Wings vs the Leafs or Habs,and the Browns vs Lions.

b/c MLB sees fit that teams in different divisions play each other only in one home and one away series of 3 or 4 games per season is what kills inter-divisional team rivalries. At one time teams traveled via railroad cross-country to play each other, Now they have private jets to whisk them away in creature comfort....buncha pampered pansies.

The only true rivalry in the AL is the Yankees vs Red Sox.The Cubs fans like to think that the Cards are their rivals, but until recently their season records didn't The Indians have been most often shitty when the Tigers were contenders, and vice versa.

 

[tomdalton22]

One of the most famous sports rivalries in the 90s, if not NHL history was the Red Wings vs Avalanche, who played in the same conference, but not the same division. It isn't impossible to have rivalries, just b/c two or more teams play in different divisions. Same with the Pistons vs Celtics in the late 80s, and the Celtics vs Lakers. But moving to another league or conference killed off some historically famous rivalries, like the Wings vs the Leafs or Habs,and the Browns vs Lions.

b/c MLB sees fit that teams in different divisions play each other only in one home and one away series of 3 or 4 games per season is what kills inter-divisional team rivalries. At one time teams traveled via railroad cross-country to play each other, Now they have private jets to whisk them away in creature comfort....buncha pampered pansies.

The only true rivalry in the AL is the Yankees vs Red Sox.The Cubs fans like to think that the Cards are their rivals, but until recently their season records didn't The Indians have been most often shitty when the Tigers were contenders, and vice versa.

"pop up" rivalries will happen when two good teams have several post season matchups. I compare the Wings rivalry with 49ers / Cowboys in the 90's & the current Cavs / Warriors rivalry. Those go away.

Most Tigers fans will point to a divisional team as what they consider the Tiger's rival. My guess, this would be the order for most

1) Indians
2) Sox
3) KC
4) MN

 

[turok]

1) Indians
2) Sox
3) KC
4) MN

Considering what happened in '87, '06, and '09, I would move the Twins up to second at least.

The Lions all-time W/L records vs their Central/North foes is so pathetically awful, that calling any one of em a historic "rival" can't really be done with a straight face.

 

[Rebbiv]

I think divisions are good for all team sports. They create rivalries and more game within a division will typically make travel easier.

Average miles to travel within Division / within League:


AL CENTRAL = 415 Miles / 996 miles (1315 average)



AL EAST = 710 Miles / 1,258 miles (1315 average)



AL WEST = 1,094 Miles / 1,691 Miles (1315 average)



Within their own division, CHW travels an average of 312 miles, while SEA travels an average of 1,280 miles. And that is within their division. CHW's average of 931 miles of travel with ALL AL Cities is a far cry less than what SEA does from within it's own division. This is a financial cost and a significant one at that.



Sure, the travel is easier for certain cities, but it is grossly unequal. And maybe you never will get SEA, LAA and OAK to be equal. But a balanced schedule pretty much makes the over 12 cities equal.


If you really want to fix it, geographically align the cities (i.e. all West Coast teams in the same league). Tampa and MIA should be together. You want rivalries, put the Mets and Yankees in the same division. Cubs vs Whitesox. Proximity makes the rivalry, not the divisional play.

 

[turok]

Average miles to travel within Division / within League:


AL CENTRAL = 415 Miles / 996 miles (1315 average)



AL EAST = 710 Miles / 1,258 miles (1315 average)



AL WEST = 1,094 Miles / 1,691 Miles (1315 average)



Within their own division, CHW travels an average of 312 miles, while SEA travels an average of 1,280 miles. And that is within their division. CHW's average of 931 miles of travel with ALL AL Cities is a far cry less than what SEA does from within it's own division. This is a financial cost and a significant one at that.



Sure, the travel is easier for certain cities, but it is grossly unequal. And maybe you never will get SEA, LAA and OAK to be equal. But a balanced schedule pretty much makes the over 12 cities equal.


If you really want to fix it, geographically align the cities (i.e. all West Coast teams in the same league). Tampa and MIA should be together. You want rivalries, put the Mets and Yankees in the same division. Cubs vs Whitesox. Proximity makes the rivalry, not the divisional play.

Thats an excellent calculation and observation, and one that I didn't realize was so unbalanced. Kinda explains why the Tigers teams most often have been losing series for years vs WC teams on the road, many games by blowouts. I wonder if that is the case for most other teams in the middle of the country when traveling to the EC or esp WC, as well as when WC teams travel to EC to play and vice-versa.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Average miles to travel within Division / within League:


AL CENTRAL = 415 Miles / 996 miles (1315 average)



AL EAST = 710 Miles / 1,258 miles (1315 average)



AL WEST = 1,094 Miles / 1,691 Miles (1315 average)



Within their own division, CHW travels an average of 312 miles, while SEA travels an average of 1,280 miles. And that is within their division. CHW's average of 931 miles of travel with ALL AL Cities is a far cry less than what SEA does from within it's own division. This is a financial cost and a significant one at that.



Sure, the travel is easier for certain cities, but it is grossly unequal. And maybe you never will get SEA, LAA and OAK to be equal. But a balanced schedule pretty much makes the over 12 cities equal.


If you really want to fix it, geographically align the cities (i.e. all West Coast teams in the same league). Tampa and MIA should be together. You want rivalries, put the Mets and Yankees in the same division. Cubs vs Whitesox. Proximity makes the rivalry, not the divisional play.

You really nailed this. Thanks.

 

[tomdalton22]

Average miles to travel within Division / within League:


AL CENTRAL = 415 Miles / 996 miles (1315 average)



AL EAST = 710 Miles / 1,258 miles (1315 average)



AL WEST = 1,094 Miles / 1,691 Miles (1315 average)

Pretty much what I would expect. Cities in the west are much more spread out than the midwest and east coast.

 

[turok]

Dallas being in the NFCE is the only intentional alignment to maintain rivalries, but what boils down to keeping a Cowboys vs Indians-like TV/movie Western.

 

[Rebbiv]

Pretty much what I would expect. Cities in the west are much more spread out than the midwest and east coast.

First thing, HOU and TEX (AL WEST) are closer to KCR (AL CENTRAL), than KCR are to CLE and DET.



The shortest a team has to travel within a division:


AL CENTRAL = DET to CLE = 170 Miles


AL EAST = BOS to NYY = 200 Miles, BAL to NYY = 200 Miles


AL WEST = HOU to TEX = 255 miles




The longest a team has to travel within a division:


AL CENTRAL = CLE to KCR = 800 miles


AL EAST = BOS to TBR = 1,350 miles


AL WEST = HOU to SEA = = 2,350 miles




4 of the 5 AL Central teams are less than the 2,350 miles from HOU to SEA. Only CLE (2,450 miles) is more.


But yeah, those AL West teams....(or are they truly "West" coast?) :nuts:

 

[turok]

But yeah, those AL West teams....(or are they truly "West" coast?) :nuts:

Lest we forget....HOU is a most recent add to the ALWD, the city/team was once part of the NLCD and the ALWD was formerly long comprised of only 4 teams, compared to the NLCD's 6.

Plus the NLWD has no teams in WA or TX, but instead has AZ. CO, and 3 CA teams, instead of 2.

MIA and TB are the two cities in the AL/NL EDs which make their teams' travel exceed what the AL/NL CD teams are required to make....and ATL likely makes for longer average distance of travel in the NLED than the ALED with TOR.