Game 56 Tigers vs. White Sox June 4, 2017

[kalinecountry]

Anyone else want to argue with who should be in Detroit with Chris Ilitch and Al Avila leaning into their ears telling them what to do with the whole roster instead of wasting his talents at the DSF.

 

[Mitchrapp]

It's not rocket science.. As KC pointed out you get paid based on what you already accomplished. Two Tiger studs who brought in lots of fans. Look at the Angels when Pujois hit number 600 last night.. Man that's going to be awesome when JV, and Miggy get to certain milestones.

I can't wait to 3000 hits.. I mentioned this before but take a look at Al Kaline. He wasn't super stud those last two years but you don't just get rid of them? And if they did, he doesn't do TV games for years, he's not in the Organization 40+ years later.. We don't have as many memories. Baseball is all about free agency these days so that's why you really need to keep your guys.. Sometimes that's more important than a title. Though with JV, and Miggy a title is still attainable.

 

[Rebbiv]

When 2 players make up 28% of the payroll, they are definitely part of the problem.

I was against the signings because I saw the writing on the wall.

Before Extension

Miggy (03/2014)
6 Seasons with DET
4 Seasons All Star (3 since signing extension)
Back to Back MVP before signing extension
Received votes for MVP in each of his 14 seasons
11 time All Star
7 time Silver Slugger

Since signing extension
2nd in BAVG
3rd in wRC+
5th in OBP
5th in wOBA
6th in OPS
9th in SLG
11th in RBIs
16th in WAR



J.V. (age 30, 03/2013)
8 Seasons with DET
1 RoY
1 CYA
5 All Stars, 4 All Stars in a row
78 Wins in the previous 4 seasons
26.1 WAR previous 4 years (6.5 WAR average)

11 Complete Seasons
10 w/QS% above 50%
9 w/QS% 60% or better (58% so far this year)

Since signing extension
12th in Strikeouts
13th in Pitching WAR
13th in Quality Starts
t14th in QS%
15th in Innings Pitched
16th in Wins

These guys played for DET and performed at high levels prior to their extensions. It appears to me, they have succeeded in justifying the money.

Upton, Pelfrey, Zimmerman, etc, etc had no loyalty when they signed. Their performance (or lack thereof) is the reason this team is in disrepair. Some of these players were projected to be less value then their contracts, by myself and others.

BLUF. Cabrera and Verlander have both played at a top 15 - 20 level since their extensions. Would we all like them repeating their MVP and/or CYA performances? Certainly. But their performance is still at a high level. Bashing them or the Tigers for the contract they signed makes no logical sense. Fans would have hated the players had they not signed those extensions and they would have hated management if they didn't try.

There is so much more wrong with this team then the contracts of Cabrera and/or Verlander. Do their contracts help push the envelope? Certainly. But they still have value in their contracts. A team like the Yankees would pay dearly to have a veteran starter like Verlander. Cabrera's contract would be a little more difficult to move, but still doable.

 

[lonesometiger]

I was being a little sarcastic.

He's pitching poorly for a guy who is supposed to be the ace of the staff. Out of 91 qualified pitchers, his numbers of 4.63 ERA (#64 ) 1.46 WHIP (#71) are probably more like a bad 3 or 4. Definitely not what the Tigers need out of him.

At 28 mill he's at best the worst # 1 in baseball.

 

[tigermud]

Must be an off day

 

[lonesometiger]

http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2017/06/justin_verlander_mri_no_damage.html#incart_river_index
Justin Verlander's MRI reveals no damage; next start uncertain.
Mlive

One day after Justin Verlander left a game early with groin tightness, the Detroit Tigers said tests revealed no damage to their ace pitcher.
The magnetic resonance imaging scan was clean and revealed no structural damage, the team said.
Verlander will be reevaluated later this week and could still make his next start.

Who knows how long he has felt anything of discomfort before Sunday.

With Tom Dalton it's usually about all the money they are paying him and others.
Players get paid for what they have done, not what they are doing in the future. The bar is set with all the players and the amount in Millions per War and such. When I read your comments about JV or Miggy and the 28 Million they get per year, you come off as the Oakland A's owner Charlie O. Finley a real miser.

"Players get paid for what they have done, not what they are doing in the future" Then WHY sign some one to a 5 to 10 year contract. Really teams are signing for what you can do for me. Tigers just went too far out on a limb for to many players, including Prince at 6 mill per season till forever comes around! People spme times forget about that one.

 

[lonesometiger]

Verlander's and Cabrera's contracts are absolutely not the problem. There is no way you can lump them in with Sanchez, Pelfrey, etc, etc. But you do. But there is no point in discussing with you because you are dead set against Verlander and Cabrera since they signed their contracts. To you, they would have to win MVP/CY Young every year of their extensions, or else they are justifying said contract.

It's not the amount they are making. It's the length of their contracts! That I have all ways been concern about.
I agree about lumping them in with Pelfrey Lowe those two were bad from beginning till end, and Upton. How ever Upton with the season he is having could opt out.
Sanchez just went bad the only it could have been better is to cut down the years.
Zimmerman the jury imo is still out.

 

[lonesometiger]

at least those guys won 3 WS for Oakland. Miggy and JV have zero for the Tigers

got to agree with this one. paying big bucks for less than good results wasting money. It's throwing good money after bad money.
Another way of looking at this not enough money to build a team around the stars. Like when the Chicago Bulls first got MJ. They did not till they filled out the roster!

I said this on the old ESPN board. Tigers will not win a world series with Cabrera playing 1st base. To much money invested in to few will not work.

 

[Mitchrapp]

got to agree with this one. paying big bucks for less than good results wasting money. It's throwing good money after bad money.
Another way of looking at this not enough money to build a team around the stars. Like when the Chicago Bulls first got MJ. They did not till they filled out the roster!

I said this on the old ESPN board. Tigers will not win a world series with Cabrera playing 1st base. To much money invested in to few will not work.

What's 1B have to do with anything? I also don't get the they're fine if they won a WS but since they didn't, cut bait.

 

[lonesometiger]

Anyone else want to argue with who should be in Detroit with Chris Ilitch and Al Avila leaning into their ears telling them what to do with the whole roster instead of wasting his talents at the DSF.

I have been thinking about how to fix things. And I believe Tigers should combined the General and managers jobs together. Cards and Phillies got it done when they did it Some times less heads have better focus.

 

[tigermud]

Things will be looking up after they go 9-3 over the next 12

 

[lonesometiger]

What's 1B have to do with anything? I also don't get the they're fine if they won a WS but since they didn't, cut bait.

It was about his 1st contract when he moved from 3rd to 1st. Thames and Guillen could play 1st. It was a money problem that has plague them for some time. To much for to few makes an unbalance team. Inge should have been included in the Cabrera trade, yea I know I'm witching over that again. But that put the Tigers off PLAN. They never got back on plan.

 

[lonesometiger]

Things will be looking up after they go 9-3 over the next 12

I'll take that. Got my sights on 8-4.
9-3 dynasty around the corner.
Corner of Division and Title Town. Sorry Mr. Tittle in the Midwest we all ways spell title with one T.

 

[tomdalton22]

It's not rocket science.. As KC pointed out you get paid based on what you already accomplished. Two Tiger studs who brought in lots of fans. Look at the Angels when Pujois hit number 600 last night.. Man that's going to be awesome when JV, and Miggy get to certain milestones.

I can't wait to 3000 hits.. I mentioned this before but take a look at Al Kaline. He wasn't super stud those last two years but you don't just get rid of them? And if they did, he doesn't do TV games for years, he's not in the Organization 40+ years later.. We don't have as many memories. Baseball is all about free agency these days so that's why you really need to keep your guys.. Sometimes that's more important than a title. Though with JV, and Miggy a title is still attainable.

I really don't care about individual milestones if they are getting them on losing teams.

As far as a title with Miggy and JV on this team, I think it is more likely that they never make the playoffs while both are on this team than winning a title with both.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I really don't care about individual milestones if they are getting them on losing teams.

As far as a title with Miggy and JV on this team, I think it is more likely that they never make the playoffs while both are on this team than winning a title with both.

But they made the playoffs many times together.. So your theory is moot. I know you don't care about individual players but many of us do. That's why we buy Jerseys, and get autographs etc.. I met Al Kaline twice by the way.. That was a moment in my life that is memorable and if we traded him well - it's not there if he's gone...

 

[tomdalton22]

But they made the playoffs many times together.. So your theory is moot. I know you don't care about individual players but many of us do. That's why we buy Jerseys, and get autographs etc.. I met Al Kaline twice by the way.. That was a moment in my life that is memorable and if we traded him well - it's not there if he's gone...

sorry, I meant going forward.