Gattis + Harbaugh = RichRod 2.0?

[Michchamp]

I think the Gattis hire will go down as another example of the maxim "If you listen to the fans, you end up sitting with them." I just really do not see where we go from here.



I still don't understand the logic that we needed a dramatic change to our offense after last season. It was good enough. Maybe not good enough to win a shootout with OSU, but we knew that.



I would've liked to see someone with a lot of experience brought in for the OC role, regardless of what type of offense they ran. Instead we got a 35-year-old who had never done the job before, & rode in on a big hype train...



Now I'm guessing we threw away a whole season on an experiment. I don't even know who we're going to be able to compete with in the conference.



We have more talent than every other team in the conference, except Ohio State, and yet, because we can't figure out how to tie our shoes, we're going to struggle against Indiana... maybe even Rutgers.

 

[hungry]

I wondered, too

The offense wasn't bad last season, but the screams from the crowd for something new and innovative were very loud.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I wondered, too

The offense wasn't bad last season, but the screams from the crowd for something new and innovative were very loud.

I - i - t

w

a

S

The MoB

 

[tinselwolverine]

I think the Gattis hire will go down as another example of the maxim "If you listen to the fans, you end up sitting with them." I just really do not see where we go from here.



I would've liked to see someone with a lot of experience brought in for the OC role, regardless of what type of offense they ran. Instead we got a 35-year-old who had never done the job before, & rode in on a big hype train...

Maybe Lloyd Carr?

 

[tinselwolverine]

I think the Gattis hire will go down as another example of the maxim "If you listen to the fans, you end up sitting with them." I just really do not see where we go from here.



I still don't understand the logic that we needed a dramatic change to our offense after last season. It was good enough. Maybe not good enough to win a shootout with OSU, but we knew that.



I would've liked to see someone with a lot of experience brought in for the OC role, regardless of what type of offense they ran. Instead we got a 35-year-old who had never done the job before, & rode in on a big hype train...



Now I'm guessing we threw away a whole season on an experiment. I don't even know who we're going to be able to compete with in the conference.



We have more talent than every other team in the conference, except Ohio State, and yet, because we can't figure out how to tie our shoes, we're going to struggle against Indiana... maybe even Rutgers.

Shut up.

You just need to be patient until Gattis gets the players who fits into his system.

Shut up.

Get a life.

 

[Michchamp]

Maybe Lloyd Carr?

No, I heard that from my WIsconsin/Packers fans, ironically. They were complaining about some shit a few years back. Seemed to aptly describe the RichRod hire... and now the Gattis hire.

 

[byco42]

Decide what offense you want to run. Get the players who can run it. Repeat. It's not that difficult.

 

[rumseyhouse77]

I think the Gattis hire will go down as another example of the maxim "If you listen to the fans, you end up sitting with them." I just really do not see where we go from here.



I still don't understand the logic that we needed a dramatic change to our offense after last season. It was good enough. Maybe not good enough to win a shootout with OSU, but we knew that.



I would've liked to see someone with a lot of experience brought in for the OC role, regardless of what type of offense they ran. Instead we got a 35-year-old who had never done the job before, & rode in on a big hype train...



Now I'm guessing we threw away a whole season on an experiment. I don't even know who we're going to be able to compete with in the conference.



We have more talent than every other team in the conference, except Ohio State, and yet, because we can't figure out how to tie our shoes, we're going to struggle against Indiana... maybe even Rutgers.

After the OSU loss last year a lot of people were blaming it on the offense, saying the offense didn't score significant points until crap time after the game was decided. That is bullshit! You really think that OSU would give up touchdowns to Michigan in the Toilet Bowl if it could stop them? If you think that you have not been watching The Game very long and have no clue about the rivalry between these two programs. That game was lost by the defense failing to get any rush on Haskins, allowing him to pick apart the defense. And the passing game setup the running game. Many of the best defensive players for Michigan were playing with injuries, and that turned out to be a major issue. I at least felt that Michigan was competitive vs OSU the in the previous few years. The way OSU is playing right now compared to Michigan, this year's team doesn't stand a chance to win. This is particularly shocking when the preseason had Michigan favored to win the B1G, and now people are talking about MAYBE beat Rutgers. Unbelievable! Jimmy needs to right the ship, or he is not going to be back next year. I don't know who they would get to replace him that would do a better job than he has done in the previous years, but this season may just damage him too much to survive for another season.

 

[thewolverines24]

After the OSU loss last year a lot of people were blaming it on the offense, saying the offense didn't score significant points until crap time after the game was decided. That is bullshit! You really think that OSU would give up touchdowns to Michigan in the Toilet Bowl if it could stop them? If you think that you have not been watching The Game very long and have no clue about the rivalry between these two programs. That game was lost by the defense failing to get any rush on Haskins, allowing him to pick apart the defense. And the passing game setup the running game. Many of the best defensive players for Michigan were playing with injuries, and that turned out to be a major issue. I at least felt that Michigan was competitive vs OSU the in the previous few years. The way OSU is playing right now compared to Michigan, this year's team doesn't stand a chance to win. This is particularly shocking when the preseason had Michigan favored to win the B1G, and now people are talking about MAYBE beat Rutgers. Unbelievable! Jimmy needs to right the ship, or he is not going to be back next year. I don't know who they would get to replace him that would do a better job than he has done in the previous years, but this season may just damage him too much to survive for another season.

The defense, offense, and special teams were all terrible against OSU. Patterson threw for 5.5 YPA, which is awful. We got a punt blocked for a TD, and Brown refused to get Watson out of one on one man coverage.

OSU gave us a gift just before halftime so it was still a game at 24-19. What did the offense do in the 3rd when we desperately needed them to put up points to stay in the game? Scored 0 and the game was over at the end of the 3rd. The defense actually stopped OSU on their first drive of the 2nd half. Offense went 3 and out when we were still only down 24-19. Next drive the D holds them to a FG. Our next drive we get our only 2 first downs of the 3rd. Higdon on a 14 yard run and a PI call. That drive stalls bc Shea can't complete a pass over 1 yard and the punt gets blocked for a TD. Next drive Shea completes zero passes and throws a pick on 3rd down.

Shea's stats in the 3rd were atrocious. 1/6 for 1 yard and 1 INT. He also took a sack for a loss of 3, so his total yardage was -2. The offense gained 12 total yards and got a 15 yard PI penalty call.



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[bphillips4gg]

The defense, offense, and special teams were all terrible against OSU. Patterson threw for 5.5 YPA, which is awful. We got a punt blocked for a TD, and Brown refused to get Watson out of one on one man coverage.

OSU gave us a gift just before halftime so it was still a game at 24-19. What did the offense do in the 3rd when we desperately needed them to put up points to stay in the game? Scored 0 and the game was over at the end of the 3rd. The defense actually stopped OSU on their first drive of the 2nd half. Offense went 3 and out when we were still only down 24-19. Next drive the D holds them to a FG. Our next drive we get our only 2 first downs of the 3rd. Higdon on a 14 yard run and a PI call. That drive stalls bc Shea can't complete a pass over 1 yard and the punt gets blocked for a TD. Next drive Shea completes zero passes and throws a pick on 3rd down.

Shea's stats in the 3rd were atrocious. 1/6 for 1 yard and 1 INT. He also took a sack for a loss of 3, so his total yardage was -2. The offense gained 12 total yards and got a 15 yard PI penalty call.



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I have a hard time blaming the offense when they score 39 points. Yes, Shea was bad but if you score 39 that needs to be good enough to win. The defense shit the bed and I blame the scheme more than the players.

To clarify, I blame the coaches. The players didn't execute, but only an idiot would ask Watson to cover a receiver that runs a 4.2 one on one. You also have an injured Winovich and Gary that were playing through it, can't fault them for not being their normal selves.

The bottom line is that this staff is great at filling the roster with talent. What they're not great at is game planning and game day coaching. I'd also say that they have to do a better job of roster management. The offensive line recruiting has been something that's worried me since the first year Harbaugh got here when he missed on his top OT prospect 2 years in a row and all of the prospects at that position were 3 stars. The DL would have been okay if not for the fact that half of the guys on the roster last year transferred. It was already disconcerting that they had so many underclassmen transferring, it's even more alarming now that it appears that the team is turning on their coach after 3 games. Nico Collins liking a tweet that says "#FireHarbaugh" is a really bad look and it's only a matter of time before recruits start jumping ship.

 

[Michchamp]

I have a hard time blaming the offense when they score 39 points. Yes, Shea was bad but if you score 39 that needs to be good enough to win. The defense shit the bed and I blame the scheme more than the players.

I know a lot of people scoff at it as well, but I think it's worth considering the issue of Mattison and Al Washington (DL coach and LB coach respectively) leaving for OSU a month later is probably a sign of some dysfunction on staff... if not something more nefarious. Both of those hires were announced on January 8th as far as I can tell, so you figure there had been some talks going back at least a couple weeks.

Similar to Harbaugh's 1st year, OSU pasted us in the 2nd half and then durkin left a week later to take the Maryland gig.

In neither case should it have been a sign we needed to dramatically change our offense.

Maybe put in a policy that in the week leading up to the OSU game, none of your assistants leave Schembechler Hall, and all their communications are monitored...

 

[thewolverines24]

I have a hard time blaming the offense when they score 39 points. Yes, Shea was bad but if you score 39 that needs to be good enough to win. The defense shit the bed and I blame the scheme more than the players.

To clarify, I blame the coaches. The players didn't execute, but only an idiot would ask Watson to cover a receiver that runs a 4.2 one on one. You also have an injured Winovich and Gary that were playing through it, can't fault them for not being their normal selves.

The bottom line is that this staff is great at filling the roster with talent. What they're not great at is game planning and game day coaching. I'd also say that they have to do a better job of roster management. The offensive line recruiting has been something that's worried me since the first year Harbaugh got here when he missed on his top OT prospect 2 years in a row and all of the prospects at that position were 3 stars. The DL would have been okay if not for the fact that half of the guys on the roster last year transferred. It was already disconcerting that they had so many underclassmen transferring, it's even more alarming now that it appears that the team is turning on their coach after 3 games. Nico Collins liking a tweet that says "#FireHarbaugh" is a really bad look and it's only a matter of time before recruits start jumping ship.

I put blame on the offense because everything they scored after 19 was completely irrelevant. 6 of the first 19 were an absolute gift as well. The game was over at the end of the 3rd when it was 41-19. We had a chance to stay in the game during the third and I laid out exactly what the offense did (nothing).

Now, I completely agree with everything else you said except for the staff filling the roster with talent. Just look at our DT situation right now. It's awful and Hinton and Smith are the only relief in sight. They are both true freshman this year and we have zero DTs in the 2020 class. We are on zero DTs for the 2021 class. Obviously there's time left, but it's a position of huge concern.

The recruiting in the secondary has also been really bad. Jalen Perry is the only CB we've recruited, and is still on the team, in the top 300 since Ambry Thomas. The days of Lewis, Long, and Hill are going to fall off a cliff next season.

RB recruiting hasn't been good either. Charbonnet looks awesome, but there's no depth if he goes down.

 

[byco42]

From 1969 to 2007: three head coaches. From 2008 to 2019: Three head coaches.

 

[bphillips4gg]

I put blame on the offense because everything they scored after 19 was completely irrelevant. 6 of the first 19 were an absolute gift as well. The game was over at the end of the 3rd when it was 41-19. We had a chance to stay in the game during the third and I laid out exactly what the offense did (nothing).

Now, I completely agree with everything else you said except for the staff filling the roster with talent. Just look at our DT situation right now. It's awful and Hinton and Smith are the only relief in sight. They are both true freshman this year and we have zero DTs in the 2020 class. We are on zero DTs for the 2021 class. Obviously there's time left, but it's a position of huge concern.

The recruiting in the secondary has also been really bad. Jalen Perry is the only CB we've recruited, and is still on the team, in the top 300 since Ambry Thomas. The days of Lewis, Long, and Hill are going to fall off a cliff next season.

RB recruiting hasn't been good either. Charbonnet looks awesome, but there's no depth if he goes down.

That's why I said roster management needs to improve. They get top classes but they are loaded with one position group. I love the fact that they had 4 top 150 wrs but I would rather have had 3 and a top 100 OT. RB recruiting has been okay as well but they can't keep them in the program. They lost Walker, Samuels and Evens in the past 16 months. The RB room would look a little better if they had managed to keep even 1 of those guys. Maybe that means that they need to consider character a little more before they bring someone in but at least in the case of Samuels there was nothing to indicate that he was going to turn out to be a scumbag.

 

[Spartanmack]

I know a lot of people scoff at it as well, but I think it's worth considering the issue of Mattison and Al Washington (DL coach and LB coach respectively) leaving for OSU a month later is probably a sign of some dysfunction on staff... if not something more nefarious. Both of those hires were announced on January 8th as far as I can tell, so you figure there had been some talks going back at least a couple weeks.

Similar to Harbaugh's 1st year, OSU pasted us in the 2nd half and then durkin left a week later to take the Maryland gig.

In neither case should it have been a sign we needed to dramatically change our offense.

Maybe put in a policy that in the week leading up to the OSU game, none of your assistants leave Schembechler Hall, and all their communications are monitored...

the weakness in uofm's defense was exposed by IU. I think OSU was able to figure that out and exploit it with much better athletes and uofm being banged up in some key spots didnt help. Id be surprised if either coach did something untoward to get the osu jobs.

 

[byco42]

the weakness in uofm's defense was exposed by IU. I think OSU was able to figure that out and exploit it with much better athletes and uofm being banged up in some key spots didnt help. Id be surprised if either coach did something untoward to get the osu jobs.

 

[Spartanmack]

you're amazing at the internet.

 

[byco42]

you're amazing at the internet.

Not as amazing as you are recycling old, fallow, well-known ideas. You get that one about OSU learning from IU's success the week before from Vickers, or Gordon Wood?

 

[thewolverines24]

That's why I said roster management needs to improve. They get top classes but they are loaded with one position group. I love the fact that they had 4 top 150 wrs but I would rather have had 3 and a top 100 OT. RB recruiting has been okay as well but they can't keep them in the program. They lost Walker, Samuels and Evens in the past 16 months. The RB room would look a little better if they had managed to keep even 1 of those guys. Maybe that means that they need to consider character a little more before they bring someone in but at least in the case of Samuels there was nothing to indicate that he was going to turn out to be a scumbag.

We'll probably get Evans back next season. From everything I have read, he realized he really screwed up and is doing his best to correct it.

 

[Michchamp]

the weakness in uofm's defense was exposed by IU. I think OSU was able to figure that out and exploit it with much better athletes and uofm being banged up in some key spots didnt help. Id be surprised if either coach did something untoward to get the osu jobs.

I didn't say for sure they did, just that would've been a worst case scenario. but even if not, two coaches leaving like that for OSU shows discontent on the staff.

We saw a similar thing happen in 2015. Score at halftime 14-10... OSU outscored us in the 2nd half 28-3. Durkin leaves to take the MD job a week later. Who knows what actually transpired, but it's clear Durkin was on his way out, and a couple players trashed him later on for the way he left them that week, without mentioning more. Definitely affects the team's performance.

To claim in hindsight, "Well, see the problem is our offense" is stupid.

also, Al Washington had ties to OSU through his dad. i think he played or coached there. or something like that.