GB vs SEA

[schles192]

So next time a WR makes a catch using only one hand and never uses second hand to touch it, the pass is incomplete?

How is it not the Calvin Rule when EVERY catch requires the entire process to be completed. When Burleson got hit before taking two steps and the ball came out, refs ruled incomplete following the Calvin Rule. Every catch requires the process to be completed.

I'm not looking to argue about it just trying to let you know why it was a bad call. The simultaneous possession rule rarely comes into play because it?s nearly impossible for 2 people to grab the ball at the same time. In this case they are calling it simultaneous possession (hence the bad call) but it wasn't simul cause Jennings posses the ball first and never loses it, therefore only he can complete the catch.

 

[schles192]

Ur analogy doesn't work because suppose CJ carries him out of bounds it is incomplete pass for starters, secondly if CJ is just touching the ball he is not possessing it, and finally regarding the actual play, Tate wasn't simply touching the ball but had partial control. At no point does the rule say he has to have at least 50% of control or possession, so even if he only has his arm in there enough to have 1% control and possession, the defender does not have 100% and therefore they have simultaneous possession and it goes to the WR.

Doesn't matter how much possession tate had because Jennings had it first.

Just so you know you can't carry players out of bounds it would be ruled a catch or int depending on the situation.

 

[schles192]

Article 3 item 5 from the rule book:

Simultaneous catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by 2 eligble opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball.

 

[Mitchrapp]

So next time a WR makes a catch using only one hand and never uses second hand to touch it, the pass is incomplete?

How is it not the Calvin Rule when EVERY catch requires the entire process to be completed. When Burleson got hit before taking two steps and the ball came out, refs ruled incomplete following the Calvin Rule. Every catch requires the process to be completed.

When someone else has two hands on it, yeah.

 

[zyxt9]

Article 3 item 5 from the rule book:

Simultaneous catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by 2 eligble opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball.

NFL:

Official score of the game:
Seattle 14
Green Bay 12

So apparently they did not see a problem with the information you have highlighted, meaning they viewed Tate's one-hand grab to be enough control to equal Jenning's two-hand grab. As I stated previously, no where in the rules, including the Article 3 item 5 you quote, dictates a percentage of control that must be met. Furthermore, that information does not state a definition of control. In your opinion it means having two hands on it regardless of having completed the process; however, my opinion is the control is not definitive until the process has been completed in accordance with the rules regarding all catches.

Similarly, if there is a fumble and the D appears to have both hands on the ball but in the scrum the O comes in and acquires some control, the refs will call simultaneous possession and the O keeps the ball despite any/all replays showing the D appeared to have control at a particular point in time. One would argue that the split second the D had complete control that they are the possessing team and therefore they retain the ball in the simultaneous control situation, but that is not what happens. Obviously this is not the case if a D player scoops up a fumble and begins returning it only to then be tackled in a manner where the O acquires a portion of the possession because there is a "football move" that took place making the D the possessors and therefore they would retain the ball in that simultaneous situation.

Jennings never made a "football move" therefore the simultaneous possession defers to the O and it is a TD.

 

[tonyballs]

Funny how the 2 refs who were standing over the pile as well as the REGULAR REFS IN THE BOOTH saw it as a simultaneous catch...but you, watching TV at home lay claim that Tate didn't have any possession of it at all. Reg Refs in booth are able to rule on simultaneous catch in the end zone, but they did not overturn the ruling on the field. So I guess they need to fire all the review refs who are regular refs now???

Oh that's right, the regular refs make mistakes as well. So if this was regular refs instead of replacement refs on the field, what would you demand happen in terms of "cease and desist"? Maybe the NFL stops employing refs and the people watching on TV with internet connection get to officiate the games? Cuz that would never create a shit-storm of controversy!

You find it funny, do ya? The one ref was waving his hands, calling it a touchback by the way. Meaning it was intercepted. Then the other doofus comes up and calls TD. How they called it a TD was beyond me and to millions of others actually. Even worse it got reviewed and it was still a TD. Pathetic!

And your question about "if it was the real refs" is a reach. Nice try, buddy..lol. Now, you're just trying to be a smartass because you're wrong 100%. Good for you though...

Oh, and the regular referees are back tomorrow by the way. Coincidence? I think not. It's ok to admit you're wrong on this. The NFL just did

 

[tonyballs]

I'm not looking to argue about it just trying to let you know why it was a bad call. The simultaneous possession rule rarely comes into play because it?s nearly impossible for 2 people to grab the ball at the same time. In this case they are calling it simultaneous possession (hence the bad call) but it wasn't simul cause Jennings posses the ball first and never loses it, therefore only he can complete the catch.

Wasn't even close to being caught simultaneously.

 

[tonyballs]

I was watching the NFL Network which had several people come on, from former players to refs, who were split on whether the call was right or not. Call it "media trying to drive viewership", I don't care. Having that many people analyzing it and seeing it from both sides, well at that point it makes one come to the realization that it is not a black&white situation and the regular refs quite probably would have made the same call.

As for the PI, they also researched it back to 2005 and NOT ONCE was PI called on a Hail Mary. There was ONE play where it was 1v1 and the WR pushed the DB and PI was called, but that was not a bunched up group of players. The NFL Network asked everyone they had as a guest and every single one, player and former ref, said that PI is NEVER called in that situation.

Finally, regarding swatting it to the ground, they had former DBs who all said they are taught from Day 1 to swat the ball to the ground. They pointed out that the guy who batted at it in Lions v Titans was an LB who should NOT have been the one going up after it, that the entire D is trained that the Safeties go up to swat it to the ground while the CBs and LBs are supposed to box out the surrounding WRs to prevent them from catching a potential bounce.

You want names, I don't remember their names, but it was on NFL Network all day yesterday. I'm not going to waste my time trying to research who specifically said what because frankly it won't change a damn thing.

Didn't the Lions beat the Browns a few years back on a PI call that was called against the Browns? Staff got murdered on the play but then came out and threw the game winner to Pettigrew? He sure fn did.

NEVER called... my ass.

 

[TheVictors]

Gambling rules the NFL, always will. Can't have $1B at stake globally, left in the hands of high school refs.

 

[TheVictors]

The only call that should have been made -- making ALL of this moot -- is Golden Domer Tate's PI, shoving the DB to the ground. That was clear as a hot day in Vegas.

 

[zyxt9]

You find it funny, do ya? The one ref was waving his hands, calling it a touchback by the way. Meaning it was intercepted. Then the other doofus comes up and calls TD. How they called it a TD was beyond me and to millions of others actually. Even worse it got reviewed and it was still a TD. Pathetic!

And your quesation about "if it was the real refs" is a reach. Nice try, buddy..lol. Now, you're just trying to be a smartass because you're wrong 100%. Good for you though...

Oh, and the regular referees are back tomorrow by the way. Coincidence? I think not. It's ok to admit you're wrong on this. The NFL just did

Not trying to be a smartass Tony, but you are trying to act as though the regular refs never make mistakes and you know that isn't true. Additionally, there are situations where their opinion of a situation is what they call even though they could have easily called the opposite. Like it or not, the game is not black&white and the refs are never going to be perfect.

Not quite sure how the NFL is saying they are wrong when they didn't overturn the ruling and the score still stands. Seems more like they are caving in to the massive amount of pressure from media, coaches, players, and fans due to overall underperformance of the replacement refs more than the decision to call this a TD, which they backed with their statement. I fail to see why I have to admit I'm wrong when my view is the same as that of the NFL and their final decision while yours is the opposite of what the final decision was for that specific play.

 

[zyxt9]

Didn't the Lions beat the Browns a few years back on a PI call that was called against the Browns? Staff got murdered on the play but then came out and threw the game winner to Pettigrew? He sure fn did.

NEVER called... my ass.

To correct and clarify my earlier statement as reported by NFL Network, they were looking for how many times Offensive PI had been called, not all PI. So while you are correct in your recollection, there is apparently a bias that the regular refs have had toward not calling Offensive PI, something Larry Fitzgerald for one mentioned he had noticed.

Perhaps now there will be Offensive PI calls made after all the attention this play has had, but as I said the players and former refs said it was something that they never call in that situation due to the nature of the situation. The NFL coming out and flat out saying the Offensive PI should have been called will quite likely influence the future calls and we will probably start seeing it called more, but that doesn't change the statements made about what has happened in the past.

 

[tonyballs]

Not trying to be a smartass Tony, but you are trying to act as though the regular refs never make mistakes and you know that isn't true. Additionally, there are situations where their opinion of a situation is what they call even though they could have easily called the opposite. Like it or not, the game is not black&white and the refs are never going to be perfect.

Not quite sure how the NFL is saying they are wrong when they didn't overturn the ruling and the score still stands. Seems more like they are caving in to the massive amount of pressure from media, coaches, players, and fans due to overall underperformance of the replacement refs more than the decision to call this a TD, which they backed with their statement. I fail to see why I have to admit I'm wrong when my view is the same as that of the NFL and their final decision while yours is the opposite of what the final decision was for that specific play.

I never said the regular refs make mistakes, bro, but these replacement refs have been a bigger joke than anything we have ever seen...c'mon now. They have been bad from preseason until now and it was going to take a horrific call to get the regs back in action. It's all i'm saying.

Of course the NFL will never come out say "we were wrong". That never happens, but actions speak louder than words. So now we'll the regular zebras on the field and we can all bitch about them now as well.

 

[tonyballs]

To correct and clarify my earlier statement as reported by NFL Network, they were looking for how many times Offensive PI had been called, not all PI. So while you are correct in your recollection, there is apparently a bias that the regular refs have had toward not calling Offensive PI, something Larry Fitzgerald for one mentioned he had noticed.

Perhaps now there will be Offensive PI calls made after all the attention this play has had, but as I said the players and former refs said it was something that they never call in that situation due to the nature of the situation. The NFL coming out and flat out saying the Offensive PI should have been called will quite likely influence the future calls and we will probably start seeing it called more, but that doesn't change the statements made about what has happened in the past.

Of course there will always be tugging and bumping going on, but Tate two-handed Shields to the ground. How nobody saw that or even called that is ridculous.

 

[zyxt9]

for those still arguing the refs blew the call, please read the following, extremely well detailed information:

http://lifexinxrewind.wordpress.com...ave-been-called-the-same-by-any-referee-crew/

 

[zyxt9]

I never said the regular refs make mistakes, bro, but these replacement refs have been a bigger joke than anything we have ever seen...c'mon now. They have been bad from preseason until now and it was going to take a horrific call to get the regs back in action. It's all i'm saying.

Of course the NFL will never come out say "we were wrong". That never happens, but actions speak louder than words. So now we'll the regular zebras on the field and we can all bitch about them now as well.

and i'm not arguing the point that the replacements have been bad. i will however argue that at least they are (were) equally bad, with their ignorance or lack of ability having a non-biased element that has been superior to the regular refs much higher degree of bias in their calls or non-calls. solely from that aspect i will miss the replacement refs. i will not miss at all their lack of ability to call games correctly, but the ironic part is they actually got this call right (minus the Offensive PI but as we discussed already, OPI never gets called by regular refs on Hail Mary).

 

[zyxt9]

Of course there will always be tugging and bumping going on, but Tate two-handed Shields to the ground. How nobody saw that or even called that is ridculous.

absolutely it was OPI by tate, but again that is something the regs never call either as i stated. however, i'll bet they call it at some point this year as there is now a renewed emphasis on it and we all know when there is renewed emphasis the call gets made for even the slightest transgression.

 

[tonyballs]

and i'm not arguing the point that the replacements have been bad. i will however argue that at least they are (were) equally bad, with their ignorance or lack of ability having a non-biased element that has been superior to the regular refs much higher degree of bias in their calls or non-calls. solely from that aspect i will miss the replacement refs. i will not miss at all their lack of ability to call games correctly, but the ironic part is they actually got this call right (minus the Offensive PI but as we discussed already, OPI never gets called by regular refs on Hail Mary).

Equally bad? Dude, you're delusional...lol. Sorry.

And the call wasn't right by the way. It was wrong. It was so wrong that the regular referees are back tomorrow for Thursday Night Football. And don't give me that bullshit that it's all pressure on the NFL for that to happen. The regular referees could have gave the big fuck you to Goodell, but they didn't. The NFL needs to have these regular refs back. The integrity of the game was slipping with these other clowns in there. It took something bad to happen in order for these guys to come back.

 

[tonyballs]

for those still arguing the refs blew the call, please read the following, extremely well detailed information:

http://lifexinxrewind.wordpress.com...ave-been-called-the-same-by-any-referee-crew/

So by Tate getting a couple fingers on the ball and Jennings getting two fn hands on it is called a "simultaneous catch"? C'mon, bro!!! That video is more evidence of it not being a catch.

Packers get jobbed. Oh well, glad it was the Packers...kinda wished it was the Bears.

 

[zyxt9]

So by Tate getting a couple fingers on the ball and Jennings getting two fn hands on it is called a "simultaneous catch"? C'mon, bro!!! That video is more evidence of it not being a catch.

Packers get jobbed. Oh well, glad it was the Packers...kinda wished it was the Bears.

he didn't have a "couple fingers", he had his entire left hand on the ball and it never left the ball and he clearly had enough control of it with his left hand and arm to prevent jennings from ripping it out of his possession despite jennings having leverage, especially after they both hit the ground. we see WRs make one-handed grabs all the time, stop using the "must have two hands on the ball to make a catch" excuse. there is NO rule in the NFL that requires 2 hands to make the catch nor any requirement to have a higher percentage of the ball in one's grasp or control.

video clearly shows tate made initial contact the same moment as Jennings and he never let go of that control with his left hand and arm. additionally, by the time his feet touch the ground he has both hands on it from that point on. that is simultaneous control and a TD as clearly documented by that website.

it appears your hatred for replacement refs - while not misplaced - prevents you from seeing the reality that it was a legit simultaneous catch and a TD.