Greatest Closer in History

[tycobb420]

Eck is in the HOF. Hoffman and Wagner are not yet eligible. The others are active. I tried to pair it down and eliminated the Todd Jones' of the world.

Other winners:

C: Johnny Bench
1b: Lou Gehrig
2b: Roger Hornsby
3b: Mike Schmidt
SS: Honus Wagner
RF: Babe Ruth
LF: Ted Williams
CF:Ty Cobb
RHP: Walter Johnson
LHP: Randy Johnson
REL: Rollie Fingers
REL: ??????

 

[Mitchrapp]

Eck could pitch 2-3-4 innings regularly. No doubt Rivera is the man but I'll take those innings.

 

[jimrice]

Mitch[/color]]Eck could pitch 2-3-4 innings regularly. No doubt Rivera is the man but I'll take those innings.

Not true at all. Eck was really the first 1 inning closer after he was converted from a starter. You might want to re-check that.

 

[kalinecountry]

Mitch[/color]]Eck could pitch 2-3-4 innings regularly. No doubt Rivera is the man but I'll take those innings.

Not true at all. Eck was really the first 1 inning closer after he was converted from a starter. You might want to re-check that.

Eckersley closed from 1987 to 1998.
I hope Rebbiv or someone can find Eck's splits numbers as a closer and compare them to Rivera (Whip, ERA+, WAR, saberstats.
I think Eckersley was fantastic as a closer, but Mariano Rivera's dignified greatness is second to none imo.

 

[kalinecountry]

I read this awhile ago, found it.
http://motorcitybengals.com/2011/09/14/mariano-rivera-was-almost-a-tiger-then-almost-a-red/
Mariano Rivera was Almost a Tiger, Then Almost a Red.
from mcb-tb

 

[Mitchrapp]

I was getting eck and quiss mixed up. Sue me.

 

[Rebbiv]

Career in Save Situations

Rivera .521 OPP OPS 0.922 WHIP 24.36 PA/BB 4.26 PA/SO 4.72 SO/BB 2.49 xFIP

Eckersley .594 OPP OPS 0.951 WHIP 40.96 PA/BB 3.89 PA/SO 8.48 SO/BB 2.55 xFIP


Eckersley did not become a full time closer until age 33.


Eckersley vs Rivera ages 33-37 (5 year snapshot)


Eckersley .482 OPP OPS 0.792 WHIP 54.23 PA/BB 3.73 PA/SO 9.95 SO/BB 2.17 xFIP

Rivera .559 OPP OPS 1.005 WHIP 24.36 PA/BB 4.40 PA/SO 4.76 SO/BB 2.50 xFIP


Rivera has done it for his entire career. Ecksersley was a starter up until 33. In his best years (33-37), Eckersley was better than Rivera at similar ages. So it makes you wonder if we would be having this discussion had Eckersley been a closer his entire career.

I voted for Eckersley, only because at the height of his closer career, he was actually more dominate than Rivera.

 

[tycobb420]

Career in Save Situations

Rivera .521 OPP OPS 0.922 WHIP 24.36 PA/BB 4.26 PA/SO 4.72 SO/BB 2.49 xFIP

Eckersley .594 OPP OPS 0.951 WHIP 40.96 PA/BB 3.89 PA/SO 8.48 SO/BB 2.55 xFIP


Eckersley did not become a full time closer until age 33.


Eckersley vs Rivera ages 33-37 (5 year snapshot)


Eckersley .482 OPP OPS 0.792 WHIP 54.23 PA/BB 3.73 PA/SO 9.95 SO/BB 2.17 xFIP

Rivera .559 OPP OPS 1.005 WHIP 24.36 PA/BB 4.40 PA/SO 4.76 SO/BB 2.50 xFIP


Rivera has done it for his entire career. Ecksersley was a starter up until 33. In his best years (33-37), Eckersley was better than Rivera at similar ages. So it makes you wonder if we would be having this discussion had Eckersley been a closer his entire career.

I voted for Eckersley, only because at the height of his closer career, he was actually more dominate than Rivera.

Now that is interesting. I went into this thinking Rivera hands down, but also knew Eck had a couple years that were significantly better and ridiculous.

 

[tycobb420]

Mariano-10 Eck-4 Hoffman-1

 

[tycobb420]

I voted for Hoffman. Why? Hells Bells. No other reason.

 

[tycobb420]

After this one, I might do best of...the last 50 years edition.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Come on, everyone who voted for Rivera retract your vote. You know you want to.

 

[beez]

Career in Save Situations

Rivera .521 OPP OPS 0.922 WHIP 24.36 PA/BB 4.26 PA/SO 4.72 SO/BB 2.49 xFIP

Eckersley .594 OPP OPS 0.951 WHIP 40.96 PA/BB 3.89 PA/SO 8.48 SO/BB 2.55 xFIP


Eckersley did not become a full time closer until age 33.


Eckersley vs Rivera ages 33-37 (5 year snapshot)


Eckersley .482 OPP OPS 0.792 WHIP 54.23 PA/BB 3.73 PA/SO 9.95 SO/BB 2.17 xFIP

Rivera .559 OPP OPS 1.005 WHIP 24.36 PA/BB 4.40 PA/SO 4.76 SO/BB 2.50 xFIP


Rivera has done it for his entire career. Ecksersley was a starter up until 33. In his best years (33-37), Eckersley was better than Rivera at similar ages. So it makes you wonder if we would be having this discussion had Eckersley been a closer his entire career.

I voted for Eckersley, only because at the height of his closer career, he was actually more dominate than Rivera.

I don't think thats a fair way to look at it. If you're going to take those 5 years from Eckersley, shouldn't you take Rivera best 5 year span? Just seems like it's to much assumption that just because Eckersley was better late in their respective careers that he would have been better earlier.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Career in Save Situations

Rivera .521 OPP OPS 0.922 WHIP 24.36 PA/BB 4.26 PA/SO 4.72 SO/BB 2.49 xFIP

Eckersley .594 OPP OPS 0.951 WHIP 40.96 PA/BB 3.89 PA/SO 8.48 SO/BB 2.55 xFIP


Eckersley did not become a full time closer until age 33.


Eckersley vs Rivera ages 33-37 (5 year snapshot)


Eckersley .482 OPP OPS 0.792 WHIP 54.23 PA/BB 3.73 PA/SO 9.95 SO/BB 2.17 xFIP

Rivera .559 OPP OPS 1.005 WHIP 24.36 PA/BB 4.40 PA/SO 4.76 SO/BB 2.50 xFIP


Rivera has done it for his entire career. Ecksersley was a starter up until 33. In his best years (33-37), Eckersley was better than Rivera at similar ages. So it makes you wonder if we would be having this discussion had Eckersley been a closer his entire career.

I voted for Eckersley, only because at the height of his closer career, he was actually more dominate than Rivera.

I don't think thats a fair way to look at it. If you're going to take those 5 years from Eckersley, shouldn't you take Rivera best 5 year span? Just seems like it's to much assumption that just because Eckersley was better late in their respective careers that he would have been better earlier.

What's more fair than using the same 5 year age span? Maybe if Eck closed when he was 22, it'd look different. Rivera might have better overall numbers but he did it for much longer.

 

[Rebbiv]

Career Relief stats (includes Eckersley to age 43)

Rivera .256 OPP OBP .537 OPP OPS 0.97 WHIP 1.01 WHHIP 2.55 xFIP 4.21 SO/BB

Eckersley .253 OPP OBP .593 OPP OPS 0.97 WHIP 0.99 WHHIP 2.54 xFIP 6.59 SO/BB


Again, Rivera has done it longer than Eckersley. If I had to choose between Rivera and Eckersley at ages 22, 26, 30, 34, 38 or 42, I would go with Eckersley. Of course Eckersley did not start closing until 33. Yet, the same skillsets exsist.

 

[beez]

Mitch[/color]]

I don't think thats a fair way to look at it. If you're going to take those 5 years from Eckersley, shouldn't you take Rivera best 5 year span? Just seems like it's to much assumption that just because Eckersley was better late in their respective careers that he would have been better earlier.

What's more fair than using the same 5 year age span? Maybe if Eck closed when he was 22, it'd look different. Rivera might have better overall numbers but he did it for much longer.

So let's say Clyde Drexler played all SF for his entire career, and switched to a perminent role as a SG at age 31. From age 31-36 he has better numbers than Michael Jordan...is it fair to say Clyde is the best SG of all time because he had better numbers than Jordan during that 5 year span at SG and that if he would have played his whole career there he would have been better.

(I know basketball is basketball but it's just meant for a comparison)... I just don't think it's practical to hold Rivera to another guys only 5 years of closing service.

Aside from that, longevity at a closing position is hard to find..think of AAAALLL the dominant closers there have been over the last 10 years. they all get run out of the game after a while. I think Riveras ability to close an entire career like this speaks volumes to how great he really is.

This isn't to say Eckersley couldn't have done it for a career but no way can you assume such a feat.

 

[beez]

Career Relief stats (includes Eckersley to age 43)

Rivera .256 OPP OBP .537 OPP OPS 0.97 WHIP 1.01 WHHIP 2.55 xFIP 4.21 SO/BB

Eckersley .253 OPP OBP .593 OPP OPS 0.97 WHIP 0.99 WHHIP 2.54 xFIP 6.59 SO/BB


Again, Rivera has done it longer than Eckersley. I had to choose between Rivera and Eckersley at ages 22, 26, 30, 34, 38 or 42, I would go with Eckersley. Of course Eckersley did not start closing until 33. Yet, the same skillsets exsist.

That's fine, I'm not siuggesting it's dumb to pick Eckersley, I just don't think it should be justified by saying during the short time Eckersley closed he was better than Rivera you know? There really isn't a great way to compare these guys but if I were going to I'd take Eckersleys 5 seasons against Riveras best 5 year span and do it that way. That way your not hand holding Rivera to an unfair time frame but also not just picking out Riveras best individual seasons but instead taking a span of years. I could be in the minority but thats how I would do it.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Mitch[/color]]

What's more fair than using the same 5 year age span? Maybe if Eck closed when he was 22, it'd look different. Rivera might have better overall numbers but he did it for much longer.

So let's say Clyde Drexler played all SF for his entire career, and switched to a perminent role as a SG at age 31. From age 31-36 he has better numbers than Michael Jordan...is it fair to say Clyde is the best SG of all time because he had better numbers than Jordan during that 5 year span at SG and that if he would have played his whole career there he would have been better.

(I know basketball is basketball but it's just meant for a comparison)... I just don't think it's practical to hold Rivera to another guys only 5 years of closing service.

Aside from that, longevity at a closing position is hard to find..think of AAAALLL the dominant closers there have been over the last 10 years. they all get run out of the game after a while. I think Riveras ability to close an entire career like this speaks volumes to how great he really is.

This isn't to say Eckersley couldn't have done it for a career but no way can you assume such a feat.

Dude, talk to the NBA board. I have no interest in that.

 

[Rebbiv]

OK...try this. First, Rivera did not start closing himself until he was 27. At this point, the difference between Rivera and Eckersley is 5 years of closing.

If you took a snapshot of Rivera's 5 best continous years, it would most likely be 32-36. The difference for Rivera between age 32 and 37 is not great enough to make his 5 best year span equal or better than Eckersley's.

At his peak (5 year span), Eckersley was the greatest closer of all time. No other closer in history can come close to his 5-year stats. And yes, for longevity, Rivera has done it longer and at a high level. Even if you took Rivera's 5 best seasons, they would not equal Eckersley's.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I'm warming up to the stat crunching of yours Rebbiv. Probably because I'm an eck guy