Greatest Closer in History

[beez]

OK...try this. First, Rivera did not start closing himself until he was 27. At this point, the difference between Rivera and Eckersley is 5 years of closing.

If you took a snapshot of Rivera's 5 best continous years, it would most likely be 32-36. The difference for Rivera between age 32 and 37 is not great enough to make his 5 best year span equal or better than Eckersley's.

At his peak (5 year span), Eckersley was the greatest close of all time. No other close in history can come close to his 5-year stats. And yes, for longevity, Rivera has done it longer and at a high level. Even if you took Rivera's 5 best seasons, they would not equal Eckersley's.

Fair enough. Again I wasn't suggesting that I knew Rivera was the obvious choice, just thought it should be looked at in a different way. You've proved your point, thats all I was looking for. It's still tough to me to vote against Rivera but I understand why someone would vote Eckersley.

 

[Rebbiv]

Right. The logical choice for most people is Rivera. I get that.


I would add....at his peak, I would take Alan Trammell over Cal Ripken. It was all about longevity with Ripken. If you take away the "counting stats" (i.e. HRs, RBI, etc) and just looked at the sabermatic stats, Trammel was a far better hitter and defensive player.


So, if there was a list of greatest SS in the last 30 years, I would take Trammell on my team all day long. But I look at players differently than most. I certainly understand others voting differently. As long as they aren't voting for Deivi Cruz as the greatest SS.

 

[beez]

Right. The logical choice for most people is Rivera. I get that.


I would add....at his peak, I would take Alan Trammell over Cal Ripken. It was all about longevity with Ripken. If you take away the "counting stats" (i.e. HRs, RBI, etc) and just looked at the sabermatic stats, Trammel was a far better hitter and defensive player.


So, if there was a list of greatest SS in the last 30 years, I would take Trammell on my team all day long. But I look at platers differently than most. I certainly understand others voting differently. As long as they aren't voting for Deivi Cruz as the greatest SS.

I fully agree.... the only reason I would vote for longevity as a closer is because that seems to be a huge factor in being a career closer. You don't have a striing of bad years and remain a teams closer for the most part. Some of the most dominant closer of the last 10-15 years were replace within 3-5 years.

As far as hitters I really couldn't agree more. I look at it like the Brett Favre factor...you play 1,000 games and you'll accumulate some gaudy yardage stats. Was he very good? aboslutely...is he a top 5 QB all time for me? Absolutely not..

Now obviously you can't take a guy who was great 3 years of his career entirely and terrible the rest over someone who has been very good for 10 years but thats just another factor in the arguement.

 

[byco42]

Since Todd Jones was not on the ballot, I voted for Rivera.

 

[spockmaster]

for me, their overall stats are too close to really make a solid decision on. what tips it in favor of rivera for me are his ridiculous postseason stats. granted, eck didnt have many postseason games (28) and he still did well in the ps, but nothing close to the dominance rivera shows in the playoffs.

 

[tycobb420]

Interesting discussion....wonder what Eck's music would have been...

 

[beez]

Interesting discussion....wonder what Eck's music would have been...

No more mr. nice guy! lmao

 

[byco42]

Interesting discussion....wonder what Eck's music would have been...

Back Door Man.

 

[tomdalton22]

After this one, I might do best of...the last 50 years edition.

You should. Things have changed so much since 1960 it isn't even comparable.

 

[kalinecountry]

Other winners:

C: Johnny Bench
1b: Lou Gehrig
2b: Roger Hornsby
3b: Mike Schmidt
SS: Honus Wagner
RF: Babe Ruth
LF: Ted Williams
CF:Ty Cobb
RHP: Walter Johnson
LHP: Randy Johnson
REL: Rollie Fingers
REL: ???

I was thinking what would the lineup look like?
Here's mine with the positional players;
1. Ty Cobb
2. Rogers Hornsby
3. Babe Ruth
4. Lou Gehrig
5. Ted Williams
6. Honus Wagner
7. Mike Schmidt
8. Johnny Bench

Cobb with his hitting, baserunning is a no brainer to me for leadoff,
2nd best hitter all-time per average has to be Hornsby,
Ruth, where he batted in the lineup,
Gehrig where he batted in the lineup,
thought of Williams at cleanup, but decided to bat him 5th,
Wagner as the 6 hitter,
Schmidt and Bench,

 

[tycobb420]

KalineCountry[/color]]Other winners:

C: Johnny Bench
1b: Lou Gehrig
2b: Roger Hornsby
3b: Mike Schmidt
SS: Honus Wagner
RF: Babe Ruth
LF: Ted Williams
CF:Ty Cobb
RHP: Walter Johnson
LHP: Randy Johnson
REL: Rollie Fingers
REL: ???

I was thinking what would the lineup look like?
Here's mine with the positional players;
1. Ty Cobb
2. Rogers Hornsby
3. Babe Ruth
4. Lou Gehrig
5. Ted Williams
6. Honus Wagner
7. Mike Schmidt
8. Johnny Bench

Cobb with his hitting, baserunning is a no brainer to me for leadoff,
2nd best hitter all-time per average has to be Hornsby,
Ruth, where he batted in the lineup,
Gehrig where he batted in the lineup,
thought of Williams at cleanup, but decided to bat him 5th,
Wagner as the 6 hitter,
Schmidt and Bench,

1. Cobb
2. Wagner
3. Ruth
4. Gehrig
5. Hornsby
6. Williams
7. Schmidt
8. Bench

 

[tomdalton22]

KalineCountry[/color]]Other winners:

C: Johnny Bench
1b: Lou Gehrig
2b: Roger Hornsby
3b: Mike Schmidt
SS: Honus Wagner
RF: Babe Ruth
LF: Ted Williams
CF:Ty Cobb
RHP: Walter Johnson
LHP: Randy Johnson
REL: Rollie Fingers
REL: ???

I was thinking what would the lineup look like?
Here's mine with the positional players;
1. Ty Cobb
2. Rogers Hornsby
3. Babe Ruth
4. Lou Gehrig
5. Ted Williams
6. Honus Wagner
7. Mike Schmidt
8. Johnny Bench

Cobb with his hitting, baserunning is a no brainer to me for leadoff,
2nd best hitter all-time per average has to be Hornsby,
Ruth, where he batted in the lineup,
Gehrig where he batted in the lineup,
thought of Williams at cleanup, but decided to bat him 5th,
Wagner as the 6 hitter,
Schmidt and Bench,

Boy....a bunch of old timers. Give me a team made up of players from the past 30 years.

 

[tycobb420]

KalineCountry[/color]]Other winners:

C: Johnny Bench
1b: Lou Gehrig
2b: Roger Hornsby
3b: Mike Schmidt
SS: Honus Wagner
RF: Babe Ruth
LF: Ted Williams
CF:Ty Cobb
RHP: Walter Johnson
LHP: Randy Johnson
REL: Rollie Fingers
REL: ???

I was thinking what would the lineup look like?
Here's mine with the positional players;
1. Ty Cobb
2. Rogers Hornsby
3. Babe Ruth
4. Lou Gehrig
5. Ted Williams
6. Honus Wagner
7. Mike Schmidt
8. Johnny Bench

Cobb with his hitting, baserunning is a no brainer to me for leadoff,
2nd best hitter all-time per average has to be Hornsby,
Ruth, where he batted in the lineup,
Gehrig where he batted in the lineup,
thought of Williams at cleanup, but decided to bat him 5th,
Wagner as the 6 hitter,
Schmidt and Bench,

Boy....a bunch of old timers. Give me a team made up of players from the past 30 years.

Bench and Schmidt both played in the last 30 years. The votes have actually been pretty representative of the whole of baseball history.

Bench: 70s-80s
Gehrig: 20s-30s
Hornsby: 20s
Schmidt: 70s-80s
Wagner: 1900s
Ruth: 10s-30s
CoBb: 00s-20s
Williams: 30s-50s
Johnson: 10s-20s
Johnson: 90s-2000s
Fingers: 70s-80s
Rivers (if he wins): 90s-10s

 

[tomdalton22]

I don't think much of any of the players prior to 1930.

 

[tycobb420]

Will close in a couple of hours.

 

[johnny2x2x]

No doubt Mariano Rivera accomplished more in his career, however, Dennis Eckersley was the best closer I have ever seen for a several year period. If your team was playing the A's and you saw him warming up, you just changed the channel, the game was over.

I voted for Eckersley because he was the best I ever saw and for a long enough time that it mattered.