Hoops vs OSU

[Mitchrapp]

Why do coaches and athletic directors deserve to earn money?

Job.

 

[thewolverines24]

Job.

No different than the players. They just happen to go to school while they are doing a job. Without the players, the sports don't exist.

So in your opinion, if a world-class violinist was on scholarship at Michigan they should have no right to earn money? If an orchestra or concert venue called them and offered them $50K to come play shows for the season, the person should have to say no because they are receiving a college scholarship?

 

[Mitchrapp]

No different than the players. They just happen to go to school while they are doing a job. Without the players, the sports don't exist.

No, without the fans the sports don't exist. In every facet of college and pro sports it's the fans they pay the way. Michigan football gets 110k going to the game regardless the number of wins or the players.. Players don't bring that in.. Or else during those bad years Michigan would have suffered but they didn't.

 

[thewolverines24]

No, without the fans the sports don't exist. In every facet of college and pro sports it's the fans they pay the way. Michigan football gets 110k going to the game regardless the number of wins or the players.. Players don't bring that in.. Or else during those bad years Michigan would have suffered but they didn't.

Players bring in the fans. Fans don't exist unless someone is playing the game.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Players bring in the fans. Fans don't exist unless someone is playing the game.

But you don't need good players for that. They come weather they're highly recruited or not. And actually I come for the team. If I want to watch Michigan football for example, I'm not saying oh man "I'm here for McCarthy or some OL guy." Having one guy or another doesn't change that..

 

[Mitchrapp]

Remember that QB who dropped out of HS to play for OSU. Got NIL, was redshirted. How did he make money for the University sitting on the bench? Then he left and got more NIL and still hadn't done a thing.

 

[Michchamp]

I am not advocating for keeping Juwan. I don't think there is a path forward to success here. I just don't have a clue what coach can provide a path to success. Donors do not care about the program so NIL is going to continue to lag way behind. That's why I'm leaning towards bringing a guy like Schertz who has a great offensive system. Going to have to lean on a system guy until Michigan wakes up and realizes you can't keep treating the program like pre-NIL days.

I consider Franz Wagner a JB recruit indirectly, insofar as I very much doubt that he even considers Michigan if JB hadn't brought his older brother to Ann Arbor.

And I don't know who we hire either, but any reasonably competent coach could do a better job than Juwan Howard.

Hiring someone with zero college head coaching experience for this job was professional malpractice from Manual.

I recall people discussing how Juwan the person, as a coach, would be appealing for top recruits.

I really don't know what Manual was thinking other than 1) Juwan played basketball well and that means he'll coach well, and/or 2) his NBA experience means he'll recruit superstar talent, which will overcome the lack of coaching experience, coaching tactics, player development experience, hard work, etc.

I'll chalk this up as a another failure of the "How hard can coaching be? Just recruit the best guys and let them play" school of sports management.

 

[Michchamp]

Remember that QB who dropped out of HS to play for OSU. Got NIL, was redshirted. How did he make money for the University sitting on the bench? Then he left and got more NIL and still hadn't done a thing.

I assume he went to practice regularly, which takes time and effort and should be compensated for.

Are you still - STILL! - in 2024 trying to claim a scholarship covers the cost to the players? We know it's not just tuition and room and board... and as far back as the 1980's the record shows scholarships frequently lowballed kids and more unscrupulous schools screwed players out of the money. That's bad enough, but these kids also get forced into subpar majors, and suffer harm to their long term health, just so a bunch of dumbfuck coaches and sleazebag advertisers, TV execs and real estate developers can make millions of dollars off them.

Pay and reward the players creating the product and doing the work, not the scum living off them. You'll get better results.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I assume he went to practice regularly, which takes time and effort and should be compensated for.

Are you still - STILL! - in 2024 trying to claim a scholarship covers the cost to the players? We know it's not just tuition and room and board... and as far back as the 1980's the record shows scholarships frequently lowballed kids and more unscrupulous schools screwed players out of the money. That's bad enough, but these kids also get forced into subpar majors, and suffer harm to their long term health, just so a bunch of dumbfuck coaches and sleazebag advertisers, TV execs and real estate developers can make millions of dollars off them.

Pay and reward the players creating the product and doing the work, not the scum living off them. You'll get better results.

They're forced into subpar majors because they're idiots.

 

[thewolverines24]

But you don't need good players for that. They come weather they're highly recruited or not. And actually I come for the team. If I want to watch Michigan football for example, I'm not saying oh man "I'm here for McCarthy or some OL guy." Having one guy or another doesn't change that..

They're forced into subpar majors because they're idiots.

Even the guy who created the stupid rules you think should still apply would not agree with you. He wrote a book about it.

 

[thewolverines24]

I consider Franz Wagner a JB recruit indirectly, insofar as I very much doubt that he even considers Michigan if JB hadn't brought his older brother to Ann Arbor.

And I don't know who we hire either, but any reasonably competent coach could do a better job than Juwan Howard.

Hiring someone with zero college head coaching experience for this job was professional malpractice from Manual.

I recall people discussing how Juwan the person, as a coach, would be appealing for top recruits.

I really don't know what Manual was thinking other than 1) Juwan played basketball well and that means he'll coach well, and/or 2) his NBA experience means he'll recruit superstar talent, which will overcome the lack of coaching experience, coaching tactics, player development experience, hard work, etc.

I'll chalk this up as a another failure of the "How hard can coaching be? Just recruit the best guys and let them play" school of sports management.

Franz played zero seconds for JB. Really hard for me to call him a JB guy when JB never coached him.

I want more than just better. I want a sustainably good program. All we can do is hope for the best whenever the next hire is brought in.

 

[tinselwolverine]

NIL will be bring down college athletics eventually. And be able to transfer at a whim and play right away for more NIL money elsewhere - just all bad. Guys getting NIL, year later transfer, more NIL, transfer more NIL.

What does “bring down” mean?

What if everything you’re predicting happens - it’s already happening - again, what does “bring down” mean?

Does it mean college athletics will cease to exist?

I don’t think so.

It seems to me interest by the consumer audience - the audience who buys shit that advertisers pay to market - is getting more, not less.

 

[Mitchrapp]

What does “bring down” mean?

What if everything you’re predicting happens - it’s already happening - again, what does “bring down” mean?

Does it mean college athletics will cease to exist?

I don’t think so.

It seems to me interest by the consumer audience - the audience who buys shit that advertisers pay to market - is getting more, not less.

Bring it down from here to down there.. Where here is here and there is there.. Wherever here is, there is somewhere else.

 

[Michchamp]

NIL made college athletics BETTER in my opinion... it evened the playing field between dirty programs and others. If you are a Michigan fan, you should not be complaining about it.

 

[Mitchrapp]

NIL made college athletics BETTER in my opinion... it evened the playing field between dirty programs and others. If you are a Michigan fan, you should not be complaining about it.

Why? So Hunter can leave because he gets more money elsewhere? Or the players who leave multiple times. That's not good for anyone. This makes it harder for the weaker comp. Some teams can't compesate enough. If anything it makes the difference between a top conference and a lesser conference farther apart. And Michigan doesn't give enough so why should we be in the happy dance?

 

[Michchamp]

I'm pretty sure NIL money helped retain Corum. JJ might've gone pro too, although in his case staying a year would obviously improve his draft stock, but regardless of his motives he also got NIL money, as did most - if not all - of the team, in varying amounts though.

Simply paying kids keeps them motivated as well, as OSU knows... how many of their kids would've stuck around under a turd like Tressel or asshole like Meyer if they weren't getting regular golden handshakes from boosters, cars, and other "benefits" from staying on the roster? That was an advantage OSU had over UM up until NIL.

I don't think we're perfectly clean either, but there's no question OSU was in a class by itself in terms of player compensation from like 2001 to 2019.

 

[Michchamp]

I count the loss of Dickinson as "worth it" to even the playing field overall in college athletics.

and while we know he got more money to go to KU, we don't know the context... would UM boosters have ponied up more if Juwan wasn't the coach? Did they decide to compensate other players more to stay? would the team have been better just throwing money at Dickinson to keep him if he didn't want to play in Ann Arbor anymore BUT FOR the $$$?

no one knows.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I'm pretty sure NIL money helped retain Corum. JJ might've gone pro too, although in his case staying a year would obviously improve his draft stock, but regardless of his motives he also got NIL money, as did most - if not all - of the team, in varying amounts though.

Simply paying kids keeps them motivated as well, as OSU knows... how many of their kids would've stuck around under a turd like Tressel or asshole like Meyer if they weren't getting regular golden handshakes from boosters, cars, and other "benefits" from staying on the roster? That was an advantage OSU had over UM up until NIL.

I don't think we're perfectly clean either, but there's no question OSU was in a class by itself in terms of player compensation from like 2001 to 2019.

If Michigan is offereing less than why would it effect Corum? He could have went elsewhere for more money he just chose Michigan. OSU still out recruits us in Football. Every year. So maybe NIL isn't helping as much as you think.