How the Mueller Investigation Could Play Out for Trump

[Gulo Blue]

This was acceptable

No it wasn't. And 2 wrongs don't make a right anyway.

 

[Spartanmack]

Your words here:



Brings up a question for me. Is it all the other stuff or this specifically? Since when did getting played become a traitorous offense?

I get it - fake rage, and running around with your hair on fire - is the natural response to anything Trump does, but the overreach on the real ramifications of this is going to cause this to fade like every other horrendous scandal that Trump has been involved in.

I suspect, eventually the Dems will learn they have a ridiculous amount of ammunition, without all the fake rage, and will take some time, but will regain power, and then they can undo everything Trump has done.

People and democracies are quite resilient. Many thought there is no way they could survive 8 years of Obama, and yet here we are.

This too shall pass.

I don't agree, Trump derangement syndrome is so entrenched on the left, there is no recovering from it. The only way it goes away is it eventually dies out a few years after he's left office in 2020 or 2024 - it will take a few years longer if a Dem becomes POTUS because they'll need someone to blame for everything that goes wrong during that administration.

 

[biggunsbob]

Your words here:



Brings up a question for me. Is it all the other stuff or this specifically? Since when did getting played become a traitorous offense?

I get it - fake rage, and running around with your hair on fire - is the natural response to anything Trump does, but the overreach on the real ramifications of this is going to cause this to fade like every other horrendous scandal that Trump has been involved in.

I suspect, eventually the Dems will learn they have a ridiculous amount of ammunition, without all the fake rage, and will take some time, but will regain power, and then they can undo everything Trump has done.

People and democracies are quite resilient. Many thought there is no way they could survive 8 years of Obama, and yet here we are.

This too shall pass.

LMAO..
I cant help it if you nitwits Believe Fix news all the time. Trump is so far up Putin's ass I cant help it if you and others cant see it. Orange Jesus is a fucking traitor and hopefully he will be gone sooner or in 2020 at the latest when the democrats will have to clean up the GOP mess yet again in a drama called 'Fuck America again".

Hey if Trump can yell
"Lock Her Up"

Everyone else can yell

"Trump's a Traitor" or something that is better..

Again if any sitting Democratic president had done what Trump did in Helsinki You and the right would be having a shit fit.

 

[biggunsbob]

I don't agree, Trump derangement syndrome is so entrenched on the left, there is no recovering from it. The only way it goes away is it eventually dies out a few years after he's left office in 2020 or 2024 - it will take a few years longer if a Dem becomes POTUS because they'll need someone to blame for everything that goes wrong during that administration.

If any sitting democratic president had did what Trump did in Helsinki every GOP operative would have blasted that president, and called him a traitor.

 

[Gulo Blue]

The intelligence community has been remarkably deferential to Trump, considering they have known, that Trump has known that Putin interfered since before his inauguration.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/world/europe/trump-intelligence-russian-election-meddling-.html

 

[Gulo Blue]

The intelligence community has been remarkably deferential to Trump, considering they have known, that Trump has known that Putin interfered since before his inauguration.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/world/europe/trump-intelligence-russian-election-meddling-.html

This is a big deal if you believe the take of unnamed sources ("several") that say Trump "sounded grudgingly convinced". It not only means he's been lying the entire time about Russian interference (which would surprise nobody), it means he knew when he fired Comey "for the Russia thing".


It's one thing to fire the head of an investigation that you think is a witch hurt, but an investigation into something you know to be true?

 

[Spartanmack]

If any sitting democratic president had did what Trump did in Helsinki every GOP operative would have blasted that president, and called him a traitor.

No, they wouldn't. They would have called him an idiot. only the right's equivalent of the likes of you would have called this treason.

 

[KAWDUP]

LMAO..
I cant help it if you nitwits Believe Fix news all the time. Trump is so far up Putin's ass I cant help it if you and others cant see it. Orange Jesus is a fucking traitor . . .

You can't help it, but you have ZERO proof of anything. So saying it is just as stupid an opinion as Fox News' is.

If he can be tried as a traitor, then every Democrat who has ever held office can also. Give up the fake rage Bob, it might even help your blood pressure.

:hitter:

I get it, you hate the man, but you are not his judge and jury. Thank the Lord. :*)

 

[KAWDUP]

This is a big deal if you believe the take of unnamed sources ("several") that say Trump "sounded grudgingly convinced". It not only means he's been lying the entire time about Russian interference (which would surprise nobody), it means he knew when he fired Comey "for the Russia thing".


It's one thing to fire the head of an investigation that you think is a witch hurt, but an investigation into something you know to be true?

Of course he has been lying - he gets briefed on that shit nearly every day. Doesn't mean it isn't or hasn't been a witch hunt, though. It probably is, but you can certainly run afoul of that, like anything else. The cover up, lying under oath, and the obstruction of an investigation is what gets you in trouble.

The actual outcome of any kind of official adjudication for firing Comey being obstruction is far from being decided in any manner. We are just arguing here in the court of public opinion. That and $1, will buy you a nice cup of coffee.

Mueller is trying to make a case for those other things, including obstruction, but to get something that will stand up in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt is where I think Mueller will have some trouble. The other side, ostensibly Trump, is trying to taint every single one of those possibilities. He has largely been successful, so far, but mostly only among his base. You get the same coffee for that too.

It may not be true that the investigation started under dubious circumstances, but if he can get enough support for that theory (and by support I mean actual testimony), he may get a judge to believe him, and then anything that would represent fruit from the tainted start of the investigation will probably not be admissible, unless Mueller can prove he got the evidence regardless of how the investigation started. That battle is going to last for years, with a number of issues ending up in the SCOTUS.

If Kavanagh is confirmed, most of that crap will end up going Trump's way. If so, what have we accomplished, really?

That is why I don't light my hair on fire and run around like a chicken for each an every event that occurs going either way.

Maybe our resident lawyers can clarify what I have posted - or totally debunk it for that matter, but that is how I currently view it. I'm willing to wait and see, and my life is a lot better for it.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Of course he has been lying - he gets briefed on that shit nearly every day. Doesn't mean it isn't or hasn't been a witch hunt, though. It probably is, but you can certainly run afoul of that, like anything else. The cover up, lying under oath, and the obstruction of an investigation is what gets you in trouble.

The actual outcome of any kind of official adjudication for firing Comey being obstruction is far from being decided in any manner. We are just arguing here in the court of public opinion. That and $1, will buy you a nice cup of coffee.

Mueller is trying to make a case for those other things, including obstruction, but to get something that will stand up in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt is where I think Mueller will have some trouble. The other side, ostensibly Trump, is trying to taint every single one of those possibilities. He has largely been successful, so far, but mostly only among his base. You get the same coffee for that too.

It may not be true that the investigation started under dubious circumstances, but if he can get enough support for that theory (and by support I mean actual testimony), he may get a judge to believe him, and then anything that would represent fruit from the tainted start of the investigation will probably not be admissible, unless Mueller can prove he got the evidence regardless of how the investigation started. That battle is going to last for years, with a number of issues ending up in the SCOTUS.

If Kavanagh is confirmed, most of that crap will end up going Trump's way. If so, what have we accomplished, really?

That is why I don't light my hair on fire and run around like a chicken for each an every event that occurs going either way.

Maybe our resident lawyers can clarify what I have posted - or totally debunk it for that matter, but that is how I currently view it. I'm willing to wait and see, and my life is a lot better for it.

I don't think Mueller is going to indict Trump. Any case he may make against him, I suspect, will go before Congress where the court of public opinion is more important, but removal from office is exceedingly unlikely.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Trump has been very successful rebranding the investigation into Russian interference as a "collusion" investigation. Even the press adopted the description. What I intended to point out had nothing to do with collusion. It's the idea that he was convinced there was Russian interference as he tried to end or discredit the investigation into Russian interference.

 

[KAWDUP]

Trump has been very successful rebranding the investigation into Russian interference as a "collusion" investigation. Even the press adopted the description. What I intended to point out had nothing to do with collusion. It's the idea that he was convinced there was Russian interference as he tried to end or discredit the investigation into Russian interference.

. . . but even so, a case could be made that that really only played a small role in the decision to fire Comey. Is there anyone around who still thinks Comey shouldn't have been fired? Unless Trump hangs himself by agreeing that in firing Comey, he was trying to end the investigation. His prior statements will only play a small role, as his testimony under oath is what would need to be proven as prejudicial. My guess is that statements made in a TV interview would not be enough, by itself, to impeach that testimony. Only my opinion, of course, as there are nutcases on both sides saying they have legal precedent on their side. There is another cup of coffee for you - that has not been adjudicated yet either.

 

[Gulo Blue]

. . . but even so, a case could be made that that really only played a small role in the decision to fire Comey. Is there anyone around who still thinks Comey shouldn't have been fired? Unless Trump hangs himself by agreeing that in firing Comey, he was trying to end the investigation. His prior statements will only play a small role, as his testimony under oath is what would need to be proven as prejudicial. My guess is that statements made in a TV interview would not be enough, by itself, to impeach that testimony. Only my opinion, of course, as there are nutcases on both sides saying they have legal precedent on their side. There is another cup of coffee for you - that has not been adjudicated yet either.

It's not like this stuff is only bad if it gets him kicked out of office. I don't think it's going to court.

 

[KAWDUP]

It's not like this stuff is only bad if it gets him kicked out of office. I don't think it's going to court.

Agreed, that is a different story. A crap load of it is bad - bad for the country, divisive, and likely to cause many Americans some pain. Trump is an amoral, narcissistic, blowhard, who puts way too much effort trying to battle people who he believes have a low opinion of him. I will qualify that by saying - but certainly not the litany of other complete crap that the left heap on him.

Hate to say it, because Bob and others will probably go ballistic, but none of that disqualifies him from the office he now holds. It just doesn't. Many of those things are judgment calls, and people put their own insecurities and feelings into how he is perceived. Normally intelligent people can and should be able to disagree without being labeled as a traitor. Of course that is my view of what America stands for, but that may not be so for others.

My sincere hope is that we aren't tested by another civil war - we think it is ugly now, just wait until thousands of people's actual deaths can be blamed "on the other side". Yay, we got Trump out of office, but you might not be around to see it - is that what people really want?

 

[Gulo Blue]

Agreed, that is a different story. A crap load of it is bad - bad for the country, divisive, and likely to cause many Americans some pain. Trump is an amoral, narcissistic, blowhard, who puts way too much effort trying to battle people who he believes have a low opinion of him. I will qualify that by saying - but certainly not the litany of other complete crap that the left heap on him.

Hate to say it, because Bob and others will probably go ballistic, but none of that disqualifies him from the office he now holds. It just doesn't. Many of those things are judgment calls, and people put their own insecurities and feelings into how he is perceived. Normally intelligent people can and should be able to disagree without being labeled as a traitor. Of course that is my view of what America stands for, but that may not be so for others.

My sincere hope is that we aren't tested by another civil war - we think it is ugly now, just wait until thousands of people's actual deaths can be blamed "on the other side". Yay, we got Trump out of office, but you might not be around to see it - is that what people really want?

I'm not going to go ballistic, but I disagree very strongly with your assessment. He puts himself before country to a degree that is unprecedented. You can call that a judgement call, but in doing that, I think you would be bending over backwards to defend the guy in what amounts to the 'everybody does it' defense pushed beyond a reasonable usage.

 

[Michchamp]

I'm not going to go ballistic, but I disagree very strongly with your assessment. He puts himself before country to a degree that is unprecedented. You can call that a judgement call, but in doing that, I think you would be bending over backwards to defend the guy in what amounts to the 'everybody does it' defense pushed beyond a reasonable usage.

You're not going to go ballistic?

What about get all bent out of shape?

Hot and bothered?

Bonkers?

Berserk?

 

[tinselwolverine]

You're not going to go ballistic?

What about get all bent out of shape?

Hot and bothered?

Bonkers?

Berserk?

With "bent out of shape," I prefer to lead with the nose, as in "don't let your nose get all bent out of shape..."

 

[tinselwolverine]

Hate to say it, because Bob and others will probably go ballistic, but none of that disqualifies him from the office he now holds. It just doesn't. Many of those things are judgment calls, and people put their own insecurities and feelings into how he is perceived. Normally intelligent people can and should be able to disagree without being labeled as a traitor.

I'm not sure Bob has caught on to it that we all realize he pretty much just posts the same four or five things over and over, often repeats himself immediately in the same post, and then again in the very next post.

 

[Gulo Blue]

You're not going to go ballistic?

What about get all bent out of shape?

Hot and bothered?

Bonkers?

Berserk?

I guess I am out of shape. But bending had nothing to do with it.

 

[tigermud]

Agreed, that is a different story. A crap load of it is bad - bad for the country, divisive, and likely to cause many Americans some pain. Trump is an amoral, narcissistic, blowhard, who puts way too much effort trying to battle people who he believes have a low opinion of him. I will qualify that by saying - but certainly not the litany of other complete crap that the left heap on him.

Hate to say it, because Bob and others will probably go ballistic, but none of that disqualifies him from the office he now holds. It just doesn't. Many of those things are judgment calls, and people put their own insecurities and feelings into how he is perceived. Normally intelligent people can and should be able to disagree without being labeled as a traitor. Of course that is my view of what America stands for, but that may not be so for others.

My sincere hope is that we aren't tested by another civil war - we think it is ugly now, just wait until thousands of people's actual deaths can be blamed "on the other side". Yay, we got Trump out of office, but you might not be around to see it - is that what people really want?

Agree

:tup: