I guess we lost the Afghanistan War

[Michchamp]

Thank goodness the Taliban are bringing back stability to Afghanistan. The headline says they're asking for the lists but it's a directive, not a request. Hopefully we get more good news like this about stabilizing the country soon. It's amazing that some people still pretend we're more moral than the Taliban or other countries. I mean, some people in the United States don't want to force women and girls to compete against biological males. You have to be blind to not see how insanely evil the US is. Obviously it's the Republitards - they don't understand the nuances of cultural and moral relativism...

we lost, get over it

 

[Spartanmack]

we lost, get over it

I?m not in that debate. I?m making fun of your dumbass take on what Afghanistan was like under the Taliban. You?re an idiot, accept it.

 

[Michchamp]

I?m not in that debate. I?m making fun of your dumbass take on what Afghanistan was like under the Taliban. You?re an idiot, accept it.

what take? I said - one line in a larger post - that after being there 20 years, with worsening results, we were preventing stability in the country.

You guys decided that means I love the Taliban.

THAT is what an actual straw argument is. idiot.

 

[Spartanmack]

what take? I said - one line in a larger post - that after being there 20 years, with worsening results, we were preventing stability in the country.

You guys decided that means I love the Taliban.

THAT is what an actual straw argument is. idiot.

lol, ok. you obviously weren't inferring that the country was stable before under the Taliban but it somehow would be if we weren't there preventing it. That's beyond stupid.

And, no Scarecrow, I'm not saying you love the Taliban but clearly you're willing to trade things like democracy and self determination for the "stability" that comes with brutal oppression. But to be clear, I'm not saying you don't love the Taliban either - you have a history of openly supporting oppressive, human rights abusing regimes (CCP, Chavez/Maduro, the Castros, etc) and drawing moral equivalence between them and the US. That too, is beyond stupid.

 

[Michchamp]

lol, ok. you obviously weren't inferring that the country was stable before under the Taliban but it somehow would be if we weren't there preventing it. That's beyond stupid.

And, no Scarecrow, I'm not saying you love the Taliban but clearly you're willing to trade things like democracy and self determination for the "stability" that comes with brutal oppression. But to be clear, I'm not saying you don't love the Taliban either - you have a history of openly supporting oppressive, human rights abusing regimes (CCP, Chavez/Maduro, the Castros, etc) and drawing moral equivalence between them and the US. That too, is beyond stupid.

No, I wasn't. Afghanistan has been a mess since the Soviets invaded in 1978 or 79. Plus, we've definitely been interfering in their affairs since the Soviets left.

I assume most people who've actually lived through war would pick a "oppressive but stable government" over living in "war-torn lawless region where you can't actually enforce any rights you do have" but I guess my fellow Americans who've never fought in or lived through war know better...???

if you're a woman that happens to live in one of the few parts of the country not under Taliban control, it's nice you can vote (for the US government's hand-selected leader...) or go around without a burkha, but the whole "American special forces and bombing raids killing your people" is probably a steep trade-off...

 

[Spartanmack]

No, I wasn't. Afghanistan has been a mess since the Soviets invaded in 1978 or 79. Plus, we've definitely been interfering in their affairs since the Soviets left.

Yes, you were. Deal with it.

And we were meddling in their affairs before the Soviets left - we played a big part by helping them kick the Soviets out. I can recommend a few books if you'd like to brush up on the history of our involvement.

I assume most people who've actually lived through war would pick a "oppressive but stable government" over living in "war-torn lawless region where you can't actually enforce any rights you do have" but I guess my fellow Americans who've never fought in or lived through war know better...???

LOL, there you go doing it again in a post where you start by denying you're doing it. Let me remind you again - Afghanistan was ruled by a brutally oppressive regime but it still wasn't stable. Just curious, which war did you fight in or live through that you know better than your fellow Americans? Why don't you ask the Cubans rebelling against the regime whether they prefer an "oppressive but stable government" over fighting for their freedom. Brilliant sentence - it's as if you're completely unaware of reality.

 

[byco42]

There was never meant to be a winner or a loser in that conflict, unless you are considering the masterminds that engineered and profited from it. The war was ?governed? from the outset. It?s like sticking your hand in a vat of motor oil. You can disrupt it while the hand stirs the vat, but it always returns to its original state.

 

[Michchamp]

There was never meant to be a winner or a loser in that conflict, unless you are considering the masterminds that engineered and profited from it. The war was ?governed? from the outset. It?s like sticking your hand in a vat of motor oil. You can disrupt it while the hand stirs the vat, but it always returns to its original state.

that's a good analogy. the one question I'm curious about is whether those who engineered it knew that and didn't care, or honestly didn't know. I'm not sure what's worse.

 

[byco42]

that's a good analogy. the one question I'm curious about is whether those who engineered it knew that and didn't care, or honestly didn't know. I'm not sure what's worse.

They knew and did not care, as always. My Marine son mentioned that he and his mates would sweep an area clean of the enemy and occupy it for a spell, but they would always return when the area was vacated. This was in Karabilla and Haditha (Iraq) in June and August, 2005.

 

[Michchamp]

They knew and did not care, as always. My Marine son mentioned that he and his mates would sweep an area clean of the enemy and occupy it for a spell, but they would always return when the area was vacated. This was in Karabilla and Haditha (Iraq) in June and August, 2005.

the wikipedia article i mentioned on the Korengal Valley in Afghanistan said we were fighting mostly the people who lived in the valley, branded as "Taliban" or "enemy combatants" for convenience after the fact.

I assume that was what happened in Iraq as well. When you only have a hammer, every problem is a nail.

all this to move more defense contracts through the Pentagon...

 

[Spartanmack]

At this rate, the Taliban should have one of the most stable countries on the globe in no time. Apparently, this guy doesn't appreciate the progress they're making toward that stability...

Pardis left behind a 9-year-old daughter whose future is now uncertain. She's being cared for by his brother, Najibulla Sahak, who told CNN they had to leave their home in Kabul for their safety, fearing they would be targeted next.

Speaking from his brother's gravesite, on a barren hillside among rocks, tumbleweeds, and flags, Sahak said they are not safe.

"I'm so worried about the safety of my family. There's not much work in this country, and the security situation is very bad," he said.

 

[Michchamp]

At this rate, the Taliban should have one of the most stable countries on the globe in no time. Apparently, this guy doesn't appreciate the progress they're making toward that stability...

so CNN interviewed a guy...

hey, I thought CNN was FAKE NEWS?

Just not when they're advocating we go or stay somewhere brown people live and bomb it, right?

 

[Spartanmack]

so CNN interviewed a guy...

hey, I thought CNN was FAKE NEWS?

Just not when they're advocating we go or stay somewhere brown people live and bomb it, right?

good point, shame on CNN spreading propaganda to make Afghanistan seem unstable and the Taliban less moral than other countries, particularly the US.

When you can't refute the message, attack the source.

 

[Spartanmack]

Taliban continues to bring about stability by executing Afghan troops that surrender. Pretty soon the Taliban, who just last year signed an agreement to accept a political solution to governance in Afghanistan, will complete their mission of establishing stability throughout Afghanistan by retaking Kabul in a brutal, murderous campaign that began immediately after US troops began pulling out.

Soon all Afghan women will be kept out of schools and put back in burkhas and all Afghan men forced to grow beards - and anyone who doesn't comply with strict sharia law will be publicly executed by stoning, hanging or firing squad. The stability is going to be amazing.

It's hard for me to understand why you're so much in favor of the stability of sharia law when you light your hair on fire every time a Christian says or does something you don't like. I'm sure there's a highly nuanced argument involving olympic level mental gymnastics that conservatives just don't understand but on the surface it seems a bit hypocritical. It can't be as simple as 'stability has a price and as long as it's not Christians deciding for themselves who can get married in their churches, or saying "kids should be allowed to pray in school" or "abortion is evil" then it's cool by me.' Can it?

 

[tigermud]

it's a loss just like every other country that has gone in there, what a waste. I say let China go next if they want all their rare earth minerals knock yourself out.

 

[Michchamp]

it's a loss just like every other country that has gone in there, what a waste. I say let China go next if they want all their rare earth minerals knock yourself out.

You're right about this.

 

[byco42]

If China ?goes in? it will invest in Afghanistan, rather than conquest it, with many, many, many strings attached.

 

[Gulo Blue]

If China ?goes in? it will invest in Afghanistan, rather than conquest it, with many, many, many strings attached.

I think this is what they are doing in Africa. Infrastructure/industry loan -> default -> China owns your infrastructure/industry.

 

[Michchamp]

If China ?goes in? it will invest in Afghanistan, rather than conquest it, with many, many, many strings attached.

that will be a smarter strategy than sending in a relative handful of light infantry to prop up a regime widely seen as openly corrupt, tainted with drug money (that our intelligence agencies were probably running), and uniting the entire country against us by making sheep herders into "enemy combatants" and seeing "al qaeda" behind every rock in the country.

blowing up their wedding parties with drone strikes probably didn't help either.

 

[Spartanmack]

it's a loss just like every other country that has gone in there, what a waste. I say let China go next if they want all their rare earth minerals knock yourself out.

This isn't about whether we won or lost, I'm simply mocking the ridiculous claim that somehow we're the root cause of the instability - Afghanistan has been unstable for centuries. We can't have kids praying in school or say abortion is evil but if a murderous, radical muslim extremist theocracy can bring stability (again, purely a myth), by running one of the most oppressive regimes on the planet, then what's the problem?

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of people here who basically scream that we're a Christian theocracy if we let an independent church decide who can get married in the church or someone prays at a school board meeting. Then those same people defend an actual theocracy where the mildest thing they do is make women wear burkhas and men grow beards. Afghanistan has always had tribal warlords fighting each other. They were fighting each other before the soviets invaded. At times, they were even fighting each other while they were fighting the Soviets and they were fighting each other from the moment the soviets left. The Taliban gained control of major cities and much of the country, but they were constantly fighting other tribes and that's what they're doing now as we leave. The country is anything but stable.

But seriously, who cares if girls as young as 12 are forced to marry old men, they're murdered for going to school or stoned to death for adultery if they accuse someone of rape but don't have 3 eye witnesses to corroborate their story? Or if people are stoned to death or thrown off a building for being gay, leaving the religion or insulting the profit? Afghanistan is out of the news, so the Taliban must be providing stability.