I guess we lost the Afghanistan War

[Michchamp]

After all the deception we?ve seen from our public health bureaucrats and elected leaders, going all the way back to March 2020, I don?t believe any of this stuff is true.

ah touch?

 

[Michchamp]

ah touch?

they generally don't report the news that makes the establishment look bad though, and having among the highest death tolls on the planet certainly does, so we can take the number of dead as an "statement against interest" as we say in law.

 

[Michchamp]

Whoops... that was fast. Taliban take Kabul, and now control all of Afghanistan.


It's not clear to me exactly what is going on there, or with this:

The Pentagon authorized an additional 1,000 U.S. troops to be deployed to Afghanistan to help with the evacuation efforts, said a defense official who was not authorized to speak publicly. That is on top of the 5,000 troops that President Joe Biden announced Saturday would be sent to ensure "an orderly and safe" drawdown and evacuate U.S. personnel as well as Afghans who helped American forces.
​

So... if the Taliban control the entire country as of now, our returning troops are going to have to fight their way back into it, instead of just landing on an airbase.

And why does the press keep quoting "defense officials" who have not been authorized to speak publicly? It's clear - for 20 years now - they never know what they're talking about.

 

[Spartanmack]

Afghanistan - stabilized at last?

 

[sggatecl]

?This will be final message from Saigon station. It has been a long and hard fight and we have lost. This experience, unique in the history of the United States, does not signal necessarily the demise of the United States as a world power. The severity of the defeat and the circumstances of it, however, would seem to call for a reassessment of the policies of niggardly half-measures which have characterized much of our participation here despite the commitment of manpower and resources, which were certainly generous. Those who fail to learn from history are forced to repeat it. Let us hope that we will not have another Vietnam experience and that we have learned our lesson. Saigon signing off.?

 

[Michchamp]

?...the policies of niggardly half-measures which have characterized much of our participation here despite the commitment of manpower and resources, which were certainly generous...?

"niggardly half measures" I assume refers to the idea that we fought "with one arm tied behind our back," which to me echoed the Nazis' "stab in the back" claim that Germany only lost WWI because of socialists & politicians surrendering a war the army was winning. Not a good thing to hear in a supposed "democracy" with "civilian control of the military."

I don't know what restrictions they're going to come up with to justify Afghanistan. They got all the money they wanted, and had 20 years to fight a war completely free of political interference from Congress. For long periods of that 20 year time, the war was barely in the news.

 

[sggatecl]

I don't know what restrictions they're going to come up with to justify Afghanistan. They got all the money they wanted, and had 20 years to fight a war completely free of political interference from Congress. For long periods of that 20 year time, the war was barely in the news.

My first thought was Pakistan being complicit in operating a border that allowed a constant flow in and out of Taliban soldiers and the US doing nothing about it.

I'm sure there are others, though I don't know if it would have mattered in the end. That country is tribal to the core. A modern democracy, to the dismay of a typical American's wet dream, probably isn't possible in a country like that. They don't identify as a country before their tribe.

 

[tigermud]

Credit where Credit is due, Biden did what trump wanted to do but didn't on account of letting the war hawks talk him out of it all the time. it's been 20 years I agree with Biden it was time to end it, it was a 20 year failure. Let China go in next.

 

[Michchamp]

My first thought was Pakistan being complicit in operating a border that allowed a constant flow in and out of Taliban soldiers and the US doing nothing about it.

I'm sure there are others, though I don't know if it would have mattered in the end. That country is tribal to the core. A modern democracy, to the dismay of a typical American's wet dream, probably isn't possible in a country like that. They don't identify as a country before their tribe.

the first point begs more questions... like why didn't we come up with a strategy to neutralize the porous border? And if that was not possible, why did we stay there for 20 years anyway?

But those questions are never asked.

 

[Michchamp]

Credit where Credit is due, Biden did what trump wanted to do but didn't on account of letting the war hawks talk him out of it all the time. it's been 20 years I agree with Biden it was time to end it, it was a 20 year failure. Let China go in next.

True. And Trump paid for this - and for other comments he made, poking the generals - by having the military and intelligence agencies align against him.

 

[tigermud]

True. And Trump paid for this - and for other comments he made, poking the generals - by having the military and intelligence agencies align against him.

Not sure how you get there, technically trump was right again those generals were incompetent and failed. I agree with Ron Paul?s article today about it all which is down right now

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/oops.as...st/16/kabul-has-fallen-but-don-t-blame-biden/

Plan B link if you dare

https://www.infowars.com/posts/ron-paul-kabul-has-fallen-but-dont-blame-biden/

 

[Michchamp]

Not sure how you get there, technically trump was right again those generals were incompetent and failed. I agree with Ron Paul?s article today about it all which is down right now

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/oops.as...st/16/kabul-has-fallen-but-don-t-blame-biden/

Plan B link if you dare

https://www.infowars.com/posts/ron-paul-kabul-has-fallen-but-dont-blame-biden/

I'm agreeing with you. Trump was right about them, although it was obvious; he was the only one with the balls to call them out like that.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I'm agreeing with you. Trump was right about them, although it was obvious; he was the only one with the balls to call them out like that.

Oh, mah stahs!

 

[tigermud]

Proof that even those often on the opposite sides of nearly every topic can occasionally agree! What twisted alternative world is this!

 

[byco42]

CNN was even grilling SOS Blinker about the botched extraction and he typically slathered the airways with a mixture of his own vomit and feces and expected the viewers to not smell it. It was also showing split-screen of the Saigon-Kabul evac/takeover.

"You keep changing the subject." said Jake Tapper to Blinker (what a name for an SOS).

 

[tinselwolverine]

CNN was even grilling SOS Blinker about the botched extraction and he typically slathered the airways with a mixture of his own vomit and feces and expected the viewers to not smell it. It was also showing split-screen of the Saigon-Kabul evac/takeover.

"You keep changing the subject." said Jake Tapper to Blinker (what a name for an SOS).

Yes.

For better or worse, the departure operation itself has been an unmitigated clusterfuck.

 

[Michchamp]

...

I don't know what restrictions they're going to come up with to justify Afghanistan. They got all the money they wanted, and had 20 years to fight a war completely free of political interference from Congress. For long periods of that 20 year time, the war was barely in the news.

My first thought was Pakistan being complicit in operating a border that allowed a constant flow in and out of Taliban soldiers and the US doing nothing about it.

I'm sure there are others, though I don't know if it would have mattered in the end. That country is tribal to the core. A modern democracy, to the dismay of a typical American's wet dream, probably isn't possible in a country like that. They don't identify as a country before their tribe.

Okay, so today, I'm seeing former Trump officials, and other Republicans, tweet and re-tweet eachother that the withdrawal was "botched," and Biden "didn't listen to his generals" who were warning him of the impending collapse. I assume we were supposed to send MORE troops there to stop the collapse... or something.

And the GOP scrubbed their webpage that had been touting Trump's Taliban deal as a success.

I guess this is how the sausage is made.

Withdrawing from Afghanistan is the right decision, PERIOD. Both Trump, and now Biden deserve credit for seeing it through.

Now the people in the media and DC tasked with directing the narrative are seeing the apathy and resistence to more military interventions in the American people - both Republicans and Democrats - and they're panicking, and trying to get us all back to their "Glory Days" post 9/11 when we all believed our military was the answer...

They can't pretend Afghanistan was a success anymore, so they're going with "the withdrawal was botched." Okay, so what? It's over. Done. Never again.

 

[zyxt9]

While I support attempting to help Afghan women and girls to not be under Taliban rule, there does come a point where one looks back and recognizes that once OBL was killed, the US should have withdrawn. And you simply make it known, do whatever you want in YOUR country, but if you or anyone living on your land attacks the US in the future, we will hiny them down and kill them as well using whatever methods we deem appropriate at that future point in time.

Stay out of Iraq, Syria, etc...but make it blatantly clear any attacks on US properties, including embassies on foreign soil, will have grave consequences. (Pun intended)

Fighting wars with handcuffs on will always be a losing proposition. Props to Obama for (temporarily) removing the handcuffs in green lighting the raid that killed OBL. If an enemy is not confined by borders, you cannot restrict yourself to borders without handcuffing yourself.

Of course the UN will frown upon that idea, but the UN is a BS organization that the US needs to leave and stop funding. Better off giving that money to the homeless to spend on drugs and alcohol.

 

[tigermud]

2011 prophetic

https://youtu.be/fUT7jnaaxcs

 

[Spartanmack]

Taliban opens fire on protestors flying Afghan flag, killing two. From what I've read on DSF, this is basically how we handle protests in the US, so I guess Afghanistan is just as stable as the US now. The folks over at the NYT covered it a bit different, making sure to point out that the Taliban just fired into the air. Maybe that's true and the 2 people were just beaten to death instead - in the name of stability.