I guess we lost the Afghanistan War

[byco42]

Taliban opens fire on protestors flying Afghan flag, killing two. From what I've read on DSF, this is basically how we handle protests in the US, so I guess Afghanistan is just as stable as the US now. The folks over at the NYT covered it a bit different, making sure to point out that the Taliban just fired into the air. Maybe that's true and the 2 people were just beaten to death instead - in the name of stability.

The assassins who scattered JFK's brain matter all over Elm street, Jackie, the Connelly's, and Officer Bobby Hargis also "fired into the air" between their high-powered rifles and JFK's head, so, the NYT version is actually 100% true, but with a critical omission.

 

[Spartanmack]

The assassins who scattered JFK's brain matter all over Elm street, Jackie, the Connelly's, and Officer Bobby Hargis also "fired into the air" between their high-powered rifles and JFK's head, so, the NYT version is actually 100% true, but with a critical omission.

the NYT has always taken the AOC position - it's more important to be "morally" right than factually accurate.

 

[Michchamp]

2011 prophetic

https://youtu.be/fUT7jnaaxcs

EVEN MORE prophetic, Congresswoman Barbara Lee, D-Oakland CA ten years before Ron Paul said that:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mvnLtMKzX6Y&feature=emb_title

She was the LONE VOTE against the AUMF. It was like 420-1. If that's not moral courage, I don't know what is. She's still in congress.

 

[Michchamp]

Taliban opens fire on protestors flying Afghan flag, killing two. From what I've read on DSF, this is basically how we handle protests in the US, so I guess Afghanistan is just as stable as the US now. The folks over at the NYT covered it a bit different, making sure to point out that the Taliban just fired into the air. Maybe that's true and the 2 people were just beaten to death instead - in the name of stability.

Why bring this up? We get it, you don't like the Taliban. You think they're the cartoonishly evil "bad guys" we see in the media, and draw these false dichotomies between the US and Afghanistan, as though the political situation in either country is comparable. But we should not be there any more, so it doesn't matter. Let them figure out what kind of government they want. We've just been making it worse, and at a HUGE cost to American taxpayers, something you'd be pulling you hair out over in any other context.

Oh, and US Marines fired indiscriminately into the crowd at the Kabul Airport just the other day, also killing two. link.

Some videos on twitter argued more died, and had videos of a half dozen bodies lying on the ground.

I guess when we did it, it was different though.

 

[Michchamp]

Taliban opens fire on protestors flying Afghan flag, killing two. From what I've read on DSF, this is basically how we handle protests in the US, so I guess Afghanistan is just as stable as the US now. The folks over at the NYT covered it a bit different, making sure to point out that the Taliban just fired into the air. Maybe that's true and the 2 people were just beaten to death instead - in the name of stability.

where's your link refuting the NY Times? how are you so sure you or they know exactly what happened?

 

[Spartanmack]

Why bring this up? We get it, you don't like the Taliban. You think they're the cartoonishly evil "bad guys" we see in the media, and draw these false dichotomies between the US and Afghanistan, as though the political situation in either country is comparable. But we should not be there any more, so it doesn't matter. Let them figure out what kind of government they want. We've just been making it worse, and at a HUGE cost to American taxpayers, something you'd be pulling you hair out over in any other context.

goodness, you're dumb. I'm not drawing any false dichotomies or saying the political situation in either country is even close to similar. You're the one always saying we're not better than any of these authoritarian regimes, then making mostly baseless arguments about how everything in the world is the fault of the US and the profit motive.

And who is we? I'm making fun of YOU. I'm just chronically the stability you're so fond of and the means by which it is achieved (even thought it's definitely not). The joke, on you is they're literally using the tactics you pretend are being used here so you can express your outrage online about authoritarian cops in the US using violence against protestors without accountability - you know, your cops murdering people thing, militarized police forces beating protestors, police brutality and a bunch of other thinks that don't really happen on the scale you think they do.

Do you really not think the Taliban is not evil? I know you've made the moral equivalence argument before, but do you actually believe it?

Oh, and US Marines fired indiscriminately into the crowd at the Kabul Airport just the other day, also killing two. link.

Some videos on twitter argued more died, and had videos of a half dozen bodies lying on the ground.

I guess when we did it, it was different though.

Really, they fired indiscriminately into the crowd? LOLOLOLOLOL, you did it again - the first line of your article:

U.S. troops shot and killed two reportedly armed individuals at Hamid Karzai International Airport in Kabul, Afghanistan, and all civilian and military flights have been halted amid chaotic scenes of desperate Afghans flooding the airfield.

You can't make this shit up - I've told you 100 times, read the articles you post because 9 times out of 10 they don't say what you think they say.

 

[Spartanmack]

where's your link refuting the NY Times? how are you so sure you or they know exactly what happened?

I don't know, but I read three articles about it and only the NYT made the assertion that the Taliban fired into the air. You can do a Bing search yourself, then post your evidence here that the NYT is correct. Knock yourself out.

 

[Michchamp]

goodness, you're dumb. I'm not drawing any false dichotomies or saying the political situation in either country is even close to similar. And who is we? I'm making fun of YOU. I'm just chronically the stability you're so fond of and the means by which it is achieved (even thought it's definitely not). The joke, on you is they're literally using the tactics you pretend are being used here so you can express your outrage online about authoritarian cops in the US using violence against protestors without accountability - you know, your cops murdering people thing, militarized police forces beating protestors, police brutality and a bunch of other thinks that don't really happen on the scale you think they do.

Do you really not think the Taliban is not evil? I know you've made the moral equivalence argument before, but do you actually believe it?

I don't know. I assume like any other party at war, they've done things morally unacceptable at peacetime.

But I KNOW our media is pro war, and I KNOW our government has repeatedly lied to us about pretty much everything during the War on Terror, so I'm not going to accept our party line as the truth, like you are.

Your position is not consistent, and willfully ignores all the awful things we and our allies are doing... here, Syria, Palestine, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, the Gulf, etc. If you really care about Muslim women's rights why aren't you furious we sell billions of dollars of arms to the Saudis? Why don't you care that we've been propping up a Saudi blockade of Yemen that's starving millions of people?

If the Taliban were really as awful as you think - because our media makes them out to be - they wouldn't have broad support across the country and easily conquered the entire thing. The people would be united against them, instead of united against the puppet regime we've spent 20 years and billions of dollars propping up

The situation on the ground belies everything you and the media claim.

 

[Michchamp]

I don't know, but I read three articles about it and only the NYT made the assertion that the Taliban fired into the air. You can do a Bing search yourself, then post your evidence here that the NYT is correct. Knock yourself out.

no, the burden of proof is on you. you made the claim, retard

 

[Spartanmack]

no, the burden of proof is on you. you made the claim, retard

this isn't a court of law dumbie. we both know you only want the source, not the article, right? No doubt you're hoping it was a conservative website so you can automatically discredit it.

but since you bring it up, are you holding yourself to the same standard? have you dug up any proof of your claim that US marines fired indiscriminately into the crowd at Karzai airport? Because as I've already pointed out, the article you posted says nothing remotely like that.

 

[Michchamp]

this isn't a court of law dumbie. we both know you only want the source, not the article, right? No doubt you're hoping it was a conservative website so you can automatically discredit it.

but since you bring it up, are you holding yourself to the same standard? have you dug up any proof of your claim that US marines fired indiscriminately into the crowd at Karzai airport? Because as I've already pointed out, the article you posted says nothing remotely like that.

okay, they fired into a crowd "carefully" and killed two guys they claim had guns. I don't think military.com would EVER report that US forces killed indiscriminately, but sure.

The article makes sense... I know if I was trying to escape on a plane, defended by US marines, I'd make sure to stand in the open and point my gun at them, but fine, I know common sense isn't your strong suit, so I retract my claim they fired indiscriminately.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I wasn?t there; I?m only reading other people?s accounts and interpretations.

Maybe it was somewhere between indiscriminate and highly precise, I don?t know.

While I?m pretty sure there?s no way to determine exactly what happened and nothing is contingent on the answer, it?s important that we pursue it to its (non)conclusion nevertheless.

 

[Spartanmack]

okay, they fired into a crowd "carefully" and killed two guys they claim had guns. I don't think military.com would EVER report that US forces killed indiscriminately, but sure.

Link please?

The article makes sense... I know if I was trying to escape on a plane, defended by US marines, I'd make sure to stand in the open and point my gun at them, but fine, I know common sense isn't your strong suit, so I retract my claim they fired indiscriminately.

you seem to know a lot about how this shooting went down, so again, link please? Where did you get these details? They're clearly not in the article you posted. That article may make sense, but it doesn't say anything like what you're claiming - it says 2 armed men were killed.

You also seem to know a lot about managing these types of situations. What background do you have that would give you a basis for making the common sense claim? Do you have experience in crowd control? Combat? Ever disarmed someone threatening to shoot you while you were dealing with a chaotic scene trying to protect civilians? Spent much time in a war torn 3rd world country? But of course, your assessment is common sense - it's illogical to think there could be 2 armed people in a crowd in Afghanistan and they may have threatened armed Marines or other unarmed Afghanis also trying to flee the country. That to you, is outrageous and completely illogical - it only makes sense that they fired indiscriminately into the crowd, or at least that's the most logical scenario. Man you're dumb.

 

[Michchamp]

Link please?



you seem to know a lot about how this shooting went down, so again, link please? Where did you get these details? They're clearly not in the article you posted. That article may make sense, but it doesn't say anything like what you're claiming - it says 2 armed men were killed.

You also seem to know a lot about managing these types of situations. What background do you have that would give you a basis for making the common sense claim? Do you have experience in crowd control? Combat? Ever disarmed someone threatening to shoot you while you were dealing with a chaotic scene trying to protect civilians? Spent much time in a war torn 3rd world country? But of course, your assessment is common sense - it's illogical to think there could be 2 armed people in a crowd in Afghanistan and they may have threatened armed Marines or other unarmed Afghanis also trying to flee the country. That to you, is outrageous and completely illogical - it only makes sense that they fired indiscriminately into the crowd, or at least that's the most logical scenario. Man you're dumb.

Wait, so I'm saying it's unlikely two people fleeing the Taliban and seeking to escape on an air force transport guarded by US Marines would first point guns at the Marines, and you need me to provide evidence for that claim?

Like maybe someone did a study and published the results?

 

[Michchamp]

I wasn?t there; I?m only reading other people?s accounts and interpretations.

Maybe it was somewhere between indiscriminate and highly precise, I don?t know.

While I?m pretty sure there?s no way to determine exactly what happened and nothing is contingent on the answer, it?s important that we pursue it to its (non)conclusion nevertheless.

Maybe they fired discriminately, but their aim was bad?

 

[tinselwolverine]

Maybe they fired discriminately, but their aim was bad?

Maybe anything.

When writes the story this pretty monumental event, I don?t think this detail will be central.

 

[Spartanmack]

Wait, so I'm saying it's unlikely two people fleeing the Taliban and seeking to escape on an air force transport guarded by US Marines would first point guns at the Marines, and you need me to provide evidence for that claim?

Like maybe someone did a study and published the results?

like maybe there was some evidence other than "it's just common sense to conclude" the marines just fired indiscriminately into the crowd as you claim. my post was about how stupid your "common sense" assessment of the situation is to conclude it's so unlikely that anyone would be armed or threaten to harm people - people were literally clinging to airplanes as they took and falling from them in the air. But it's beyond reason to think 2 guys would be armed and use threats try to get out there - no one would do that. Again, you're a moron.

by the way, you do realize it's not only military aircraft there. look at some pictures.

 

[Spartanmack]

Maybe they fired discriminately, but their aim was bad?

how was their aim bad? they shot 2 armed people out of how many?

This reminds me of the time you fell for the bit about Michael Brown being executed by a cop while on his knees w/ his hands up attempting to surrender. Except this time, you're making stuff up instead of believing obviously made up stuff.

 

[tinselwolverine]

how was their aim bad? they shot 2 armed people out of how many?

I?ll take this one.

Maybe they were aiming at unarmed targets because they didn?t want to piss off the guys with the guns, but they missed and hit and killed the guys with the guns anyway.

 

[Spartanmack]

I?ll take this one.

Maybe they were aiming at unarmed targets because they didn?t want to piss off the guys with the guns, but they missed and hit and killed the guys with the guns anyway.

this seems plausible IF it were plausible to believe that at least 2 out of a chaotic mob of thousands in Afghanistan were armed, which it's not - this is Afghanistan, not Chicago. If this same scenario plays out at O'Hare International airport - totally believable, especially the part about Chicago cops firing indiscriminately into the crowd.

Edit: scenario 2 is only totally believable if their is an oppressor/oppressed component like the cops are white and the dead guys are people of color.