I just voted.

[tinselwolverine]

I'm talking ballot measures, like in this past election.

What minimum wage are you talking about? The national minimum wage?

 

[Gulo Blue]

It's already happened Red. The "ditch diggers" comment.

Only today it's not ditch diggers, it's service employees. The US job force/economy is increasingly made up of service workers like Starbucks and other restaurants and hotel/hospitality.

Not taken as literally digging ditches any longer, the world will always have tiered employment and pay.

The most overpaid job - BY FAR - in my opinion, are realtors. Why the fuck these ass clowns think they "earn" 6% of the sale price of a home for doing nothing more than the internet does is beyond me.

And with the recent boom here again in real estate, you hear plenty of bragging coming from that job type.

What a waste b

That's the conclusion I'm hoping some people will draw. I don't think we're there there. But we're just on the cusp, and there aren't quite enough living wage jobs to keep everyone that could be working working. You can cover it up with things like the expansion of disability, so it's difficult to tell how bad it is. We haven't seen a big drop in employment participation (as opposed to unemployment) , so I don't think it's clear that we've crossed the line, but the amount of underemployment seems like a good indicator.

 

[grandy]

What minimum wage are you talking about? The national minimum wage?

http://m.wsj.com/articles/BL-234B-5791

Either state or national. I'm mainly curious what people think about voters being able to directly vote for minimum wage increases via ballot measures.

 

[tinselwolverine]

http://m.wsj.com/articles/BL-234B-5791

Either state or national. I'm mainly curious what people think about voters being able to directly vote for minimum wage increases via ballot measures.

There's no such thing as a national ballot initiative.

The article you linked to reports that states are already doing minimum wage ballot initiatives.

 

[Gulo Blue]

The firm is over 100 people and we have several quant trading teams that all do different things.

So I've asked a couple people that work with quants (years ago) and the answer was no...sometimes, dynamics guy analyze inputs and outputs of a systems they can't measure directly with the goal of figuring out details of the system indirectly. That's got to be a big part of what quants do. Look for correlations and coherence between signals. But what about trying to figure out what the other guy's quants are doing? You know they're building trading algorithms and you know what tools they're using to build them. Why not try to run a system ID on their trading patterns to identify their triggers and lag times? If you know their inputs and outputs, seems like you could build a feedback mechanism to use it against them.

 

[grandy]

There's no such thing as a national ballot initiative.

The article you linked to reports that states are already doing minimum wage ballot initiatives.

Yes I know, I want to know if anyone is against this. Should the people be able to vote directly for their own wage?

 

[tinselwolverine]

Yes I know, I want to know if anyone is against this. Should the people be able to vote directly for their own wage?

Well, a person can in their own state.

Here in California, the minimum wage is higher than the Federal minimum wage.

But you can't vote directly for anything on a national level, except for your own Representative to the House of Representatives and your own Senator to the United States Senate.

You can't even vote directly for your president and vice-president; not really - and byco wants to take away your ability to vote directly for your own United States Senator.

EDIT: Actually...if byco had his way...yes...you would be able to vote directly for your United States Senator...just as long as you were a member of your state legislature...

 

[Gulo Blue]

http://m.wsj.com/articles/BL-234B-5791

Either state or national. I'm mainly curious what people think about voters being able to directly vote for minimum wage increases via ballot measures.

It's excellent at State or City levels. Let it vary and let's locals decide and deal with the benefits/consequences. And let the rest of the nation benefit from getting to see what actually works and doesn't.

 

[grandy]

Well, a person can in their own state.

Here in California, the minimum wage is higher than the Federal minimum wage.

But you can't vote directly for anything on a national level, except for your own Representative to the House of Representatives and your own Senator to the United States Senate.

You can't even vote directly for your president and vice-president; not really - and byco wants to take away your ability to vote directly for your own United States Senator.

I shouldn't have mentioned national, but the general idea is still there. Just wondering what people think of the majority favoring minimum wage increases.

 

[tinselwolverine]

It's excellent at State or City levels. Let it vary and let's locals decide and deal with the benefits/consequences. And let the rest of the nation benefit from getting to see what actually works and doesn't.

Yeah.

Kinda like with pot.

 

[Spartanmack]

Regardless of how you feel about minimum wage, do you think the people of this country should be able to vote on both the establishment of a minimum wage as well as any increases?

I don't think it's a good idea - I'm sure most people would vote to increase their own wages without giving their employer a say and wages should be a negotiated process w/ both buyers and sellers having a say. but, in my opinion, those people would be voting against their best interest as the fallout from enacting an egregious min wage would be negative for the local economy. That said, I don't think that's a good enough reason to deny people access to the democratic process. We shouldn't be taking away freedoms just to protect stupid people from themselves.

 

[byco42]

Well, a person can in their own state.

Here in California, the minimum wage is higher than the Federal minimum wage.

But you can't vote directly for anything on a national level, except for your own Representative to the House of Representatives and your own Senator to the United States Senate.

You can't even vote directly for your president and vice-president; not really - and byco wants to take away your ability to vote directly for your own United States Senator.

EDIT: Actually...if byco had his way...yes...you would be able to vote directly for your United States Senator...just as long as you were a member of your state legislature...

You misconstrue. I only want to take away your ability to vote for your US Senator.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I don't think it's a good idea - I'm sure most people would vote to increase their own wages without giving their employer a say and wages should be a negotiated process w/ both buyers and sellers having a say. but, in my opinion, those people would be voting against their best interest as the fallout from enacting an egregious min wage would be negative for the local economy. That said, I don't think that's a good enough reason to deny people access to the democratic process. We shouldn't be taking away freedoms just to protect stupid people from themselves.

I don't have stats; but prima facie; I have very little doubt that almost voter makes more than minimum wage, and makes more than whatever pittance raise any ballot initiative would offer.

 

[tinselwolverine]

You misconstrue. I only want to take away your ability to vote for your US Senator.

All I have to say to you is the same thing Siri says to me when I ask her something pejorative, bigoted or profane.

 

[Spartanmack]

So I've asked a couple people that work with quants (years ago) and the answer was no...sometimes, dynamics guy analyze inputs and outputs of a systems they can't measure directly with the goal of figuring out details of the system indirectly. That's got to be a big part of what quants do. Look for correlations and coherence between signals. But what about trying to figure out what the other guy's quants are doing? You know they're building trading algorithms and you know what tools they're using to build them. Why not try to run a system ID on their trading patterns to identify their triggers and lag times? If you know their inputs and outputs, seems like you could build a feedback mechanism to use it against them.

well, i'm not a quant - I work in what we call the fundamental discretionary equities business. I'll take a crack at the question but other than the first part of my answer, it will be an educated guess at best. First, none of our guys are momentum or high frequency traders, but guys that do that put a huge emphasis on speed to market. To achieve best times, they try to co-locate their servers at the exchanges and get deals w/ the exchanges that allow them to trade in fractions of a penny. Firms have even rented space next door to exchanges and dug trenches to lay new t-1 lines to be as close to exchange servers as possible. A new exchange IEX has opened in the last year to try to even the playing field - they literally have a spool of something like miles and miles of cable in their server farm to slow down high frequency guys and prevent them from front running order flow.

As for building a feedback mechanism, this is a bit of an educated guess - while I don't think it's feasible to identify/isolate what a single player is doing, they definitely use market data to see where things are going and get out in front of the flow. They literally flood the exchanges with thousands of "fake" orders for fractions of a second and they're so fast they can actually pull their bids/offers before they get hit/taken. This gives them tremendously valuable information as once they know where the market is, they can front run these orders. This all happens in tiny fractions of a second - way faster than conventional traders can see. From my seat, i think i see it a lot when I'm trying to buy a stock using an algo, no news comes out, volume is not increasing but suddenly the offer starts creeping higher - often w/out a share trading. Can't say that's it for sure but our algo providers have shown us examples of stocks we've traded and they're constantly studying it and tweaking the anti-gaming features of their products. But again, I don't think they're targeting a specific player in the market or even the algo I'm using, or another player in the market - I think they're trying to get a sense of order flow in general and trying to get to the exchanges where the orders are going faster than other high frequency front runner sleaze balls.

Not sure if any of that answers your question - hope it's somewhat informational.

 

[TheVictors]

I don't think it's a good idea - I'm sure most people would vote to increase their own wages without giving their employer a say and wages should be a negotiated process w/ both buyers and sellers having a say. but, in my opinion, those people would be voting against their best interest as the fallout from enacting an egregious min wage would be negative for the local economy. That said, I don't think that's a good enough reason to deny people access to the democratic process. We shouldn't be taking away freedoms just to protect stupid people from themselves.

There's a difference between THE minimum wage and relatively lower paying jobs. Here in CO, wages are suppressed because of the tremendous glut of available employees moving here. When I had my snowboard shops in Vail, we paid $12/hour + commission (very little). Some prospective employees tried to counter and ask for $14 or $15 but I simply said No. The reason being that I could have a dozen other candidates take the $12/hour wage.

Now the ski shops paid $14 or $15 because they were trying to get employees ...I had guys in the summer hit me up for jobs for that next season. Now clearly $12/hour was higher than THE minimum but we didn't have to pay anything higher to get plenty of demand.

Look at the oil companies in 2006-08 that we're hiring parolees right out of prison and putting them to work on oil platforms in the Gulf for $40/hour.

Deadly work but in demand.

Don't like working the fryer at McD's, try working the fracking fields in the Dakotas.

Pays better because ....it does.

 

[Spartanmack]

I don't have stats; but prima facie; I have very little doubt that almost voter makes more than minimum wage, and makes more than whatever pittance raise any ballot initiative would offer.

right. I should have added that a lot of other folks would like to be nice to people and vote to raise their wages for them w/out any input from the employer.

 

[tinselwolverine]

right. I should have added that a lot of other folks would like to be nice to people and vote to raise their wages for them w/out any input from the employer.

Back in the not too long ago, I saw/heard none other than Rick Santorum proudly claiming that he had actually voted in favor of the most recent federal minimum increase.

I'm pretty sure folks imposing minimum wage regulations on employers ain't goin' nowhere.

For what it's worth, employers have the same one vote on a ballot initiative or representatives to Congress and the state legislatures as everybody else has.

Except in Chicago.

But those employers tend to be takin' down a whole bunch of nanny state big government contracts, and it's kind of just the cost of doing business.

 

[TheVictors]

Hey spartanmack, have you read Flash Boys by Lewis?

 

[byco42]

All I have to say to you is the same thing Siri says to me when I ask her something pejorative, bigoted or profane.