KC Joyner WR vs CB

[LKP]

Probably very similar to every NFL team.

The only team we were healthier than was Tampa and Green Bay in that 7 game stretch. Green Bay was a proper 30 point win. And it took 5 turnovers(2 flukes in the 4th) and blocked punt for Tampa to beat us by 3.

at Steelers, Giants, Ravens, at Vikings and at Eagles were healthier teams at game time than us for those games and 4 of the 5 were on hot streaks in the second half of the season.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

I would take Watkins over any of the CBs right now, because he legitimately seems like a star player. Maybe with two top CBs, Stafford completes more passes in the 4th quarter and we aren't giving the ball away every other possession (several of his INTs were entirely the fault of our poor receivers, one was even Calvin's fault). Stafford still needs some serious improvement of his own, but it seems likely we make the playoffs just swapping Durham for Watkins.

That said, Gilbert and Dennard (I like Dennard more, but I think they should be about equally rated) would be next up for me if Watkins is gone. Evans is big (which helps a lot for an erratic QB), but he's also a sloppy route runner. We need our WRs to get separation, and Evans doesn't always do that. Lee is a burner on the field, but didn't have a great combine and has had issues with dropping passes.

At 10, here would be my ideal picks in order:
WR Watkins
CB Dennard
CB Gilbert
WR Evans
S Clinton-Dix
WR Lee

 

[Mitchrapp]

Imo, Watkins isn't even an option because he'll be gone by ten..I would think..

 

[cheeno]

I'm back to leaning towards Barr.

 

[cheeno]

I would take Watkins over any of the CBs right now, because he legitimately seems like a star player. Maybe with two top CBs, Stafford completes more passes in the 4th quarter and we aren't giving the ball away every other possession (several of his INTs were entirely the fault of our poor receivers, one was even Calvin's fault). Stafford still needs some serious improvement of his own, but it seems likely we make the playoffs just swapping Durham for Watkins.

That said, Gilbert and Dennard (I like Dennard more, but I think they should be about equally rated) would be next up for me if Watkins is gone. Evans is big (which helps a lot for an erratic QB), but he's also a sloppy route runner. We need our WRs to get separation, and Evans doesn't always do that. Lee is a burner on the field, but didn't have a great combine and has had issues with dropping passes.

At 10, here would be my ideal picks in order:
WR Watkins
CB Dennard
CB Gilbert
WR Evans
S Clinton-Dix
WR Lee

Darqueze Dennard, CB, Michigan State. Previous Rank: 30
2/27/14: Dennard was surrounded with speed concerns entering the Combine, but he did his part to erase them. In the 40-yard dash, Dennard had an official time at 4.51 seconds. He was tight in the field drills though. His hips weren't fluid and his change of direction was awkward. Dennard showed that playing off-man coverage is a real weakness. He was a press-man corner in college, so he's going to need development to be a complete player in the NFL. That is a big difference between Dennard and Gilbert, which leads to Gilbert being rated first at the position.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

Darqueze Dennard, CB, Michigan State. Previous Rank: 30
2/27/14: Dennard was surrounded with speed concerns entering the Combine, but he did his part to erase them. In the 40-yard dash, Dennard had an official time at 4.51 seconds. He was tight in the field drills though. His hips weren't fluid and his change of direction was awkward. Dennard showed that playing off-man coverage is a real weakness. He was a press-man corner in college, so he's going to need development to be a complete player in the NFL. That is a big difference between Dennard and Gilbert, which leads to Gilbert being rated first at the position.

My main concern with him was speed, almost entirely. I can understand being tight in drills would affect how he's viewed, but he looked good in games. I admittedly didn't see but 3 or 4 games of Gilbert, but Dennard looked very fluid and glued to receivers throughout the year.

 

[cheeno]

CBS Scouts compare Gilbert and Dennard to:

Dennard - Keenan Lewis, New Orleans Saints
Gilbert - Terence Newman, Cincinnati Bengals

Yawn.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

CBS Scouts compare Gilbert and Dennard to:

Dennard - Keenan Lewis, New Orleans Saints
Gilbert - Terence Newman, Cincinnati Bengals

Yawn.

If it was as easy as that, we wouldn't even bother talking about the draft. I think Dennard has Joe Haden potential with the ability to be highly effective through anticipation and positioning more than pure speed. I think Gilbert has Jonathan Joseph potential as a #1 corner who covers a ton of the field thanks to elite athleticism.

 

[LKP]

How do you guys compare Gilbert and Dennard to Dee Milliner?

 

[jdeb]

Imo, Watkins isn't even an option because he'll be gone by ten..I would think..

I would think so as well. The guy is a sure thing.

 

[mhughes0021]

How do you guys compare Gilbert and Dennard to Dee Milliner?

Dee milliner I compare to chris Houston. Fast but gets himself out of position a lot and tries to use his speed to make up for it.

Gilbert I compare athletically to Patrick Peterson. Hes long and fast but still has that quick twitch muscle that gives him rare return ability. Ballhawk with great hands. He need to develop mechanically to become a version of Peterson but he has the ability. I saw a slow back pedal cause I think he uses his arms wrong but he gets in and out of breaks way better than dennard did.

Dennard a I would compare to a poor mans revis....uses physical toughness to smother guys. Not the fastest or mechanically gifted.

Ive got gilbert over dennard not really having a good understanding of how the new system will use its corners.

 

[tomdalton22]

I would think so as well. The guy is a sure thing.

I think we have learned that there is no such thing as a sure thing!

 

[jdeb]

I think we have learned that there is no such thing as a sure thing!

??? Were talking Lions here. The guy is can't miss unless injured or does something stupid off the field.

 

[lgolfer]

??? Were talking Lions here. The guy is can't miss unless injured or does something stupid off the field.

Completely agree. Which is why I wish there was some way the Lions could take him. Personally, if Watkins drops to the Raiders at #5, I'd consider trading our round 1, 2 picks for Oakland's round 1, 5 picks. It works based on the draft value chart: http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php

I'm not saying the Lions should do that, but I'd at least consider it because I believe Watkins would make a big enough difference in our offense to justify it.

 

[mhughes0021]

Completely agree. Which is why I wish there was some way the Lions could take him. Personally, if Watkins drops to the Raiders at #5, I'd consider trading our round 1, 2 picks for Oakland's round 1, 5 picks. It works based on the draft value chart: http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php

I'm not saying the Lions should do that, but I'd at least consider it because I believe Watkins would make a big enough difference in our offense to justify it.

it was ridiculous how above and beyond better he looked in drills than every other wr at the combine. Guy is a freak. Jordan Matthews and Odell Beckham looked like the 2nd and 3rd best Wrs to me.

Id have no problem trading up for Watkins like atl traded up for Julio jones. obviously the compensation would be way different since we don't have to move up as far....but the trade is similar in that were desperate for that 2nd WR.

 

[cheeno]

Completely agree. Which is why I wish there was some way the Lions could take him. Personally, if Watkins drops to the Raiders at #5, I'd consider trading our round 1, 2 picks for Oakland's round 1, 5 picks. It works based on the draft value chart: http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php

I'm not saying the Lions should do that, but I'd at least consider it because I believe Watkins would make a big enough difference in our offense to justify it.

I have been saying thins since January. A Martin Mayhew 2nd round pick is worthless to us anyways.

Delmas
Best
Young
Leshoure
Broyles

 

[jdeb]

Completely agree. Which is why I wish there was some way the Lions could take him. Personally, if Watkins drops to the Raiders at #5, I'd consider trading our round 1, 2 picks for Oakland's round 1, 5 picks. It works based on the draft value chart: http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php

I'm not saying the Lions should do that, but I'd at least consider it because I believe Watkins would make a big enough difference in our offense to justify it.

I would not move up to take him. We have many other needs. It's not like we are a WR away from being a playoff team. History has shown us that there are far a few WR's that make an impact in their first year. He probably will be one of those players but still, we have many more holes to fill. This draft is deep in WR's so we can get a good one in the 3rd round even. Look at Warford, he was a 3rd rounder and played at a Pro Bowl level in his rookie year. Hopefully Suh will resign to provide much needed cap relief so we can address a #2 WR via FA. We need to draft a starting CB, and Safety. We can address depth starting in the 3rd round.

 

[lgolfer]

I would not move up to take him. We have many other needs. It's not like we are a WR away from being a playoff team. History has shown us that there are far a few WR's that make an impact in their first year. He probably will be one of those players but still, we have many more holes to fill. This draft is deep in WR's so we can get a good one in the 3rd round even. Look at Warford, he was a 3rd rounder and played at a Pro Bowl level in his rookie year. Hopefully Suh will resign to provide much needed cap relief so we can address a #2 WR via FA. We need to draft a starting CB, and Safety. We can address depth starting in the 3rd round.

It's much easier to start a guard as a rookie than it is to start a WR as a rookie. That's not the greatest comparison. There's not as much of a learning curve.

I do agree that the draft is deep in WRs, but like you said, few WRs make an impact their first year. Because I think Watkins would make a big impact his rookie year, I think it'd be worth the trade if the front office decided to do it.

Who would you sign in free agency to be our #2 WR? The WR class in free agency is pretty poor this year. Decker, Nicks, etc. Decker is guaranteed to get overpaid because of the numbers he put up with Peyton. Nicks is very inconsistent and often injured.

I'd be happy if we drafted Gilbert at 10 (it's what I think is currently most likely). We could also draft a guy like Dennard if we trade back. But I'm not too interested in grabbing a mid-round CB. We have enough projects already. Slay, Bentley, and Houston should improve, Slay and Bentley because of experience and Houston because he should be healthy. Plus we can see if Green and Greenwood are ready to step up. CB is definitely not a strength, but I think having Teryl Austin as our DC will help them develop.

Also, I think we can address safety either through the draft or free agency. There are several possibilities in the draft like Haha Clinton-Dix, Calvin Pryor, Ahmad Dixon. If we go the free agency route we could sign Chris Clemons, James Ihedigbo, Donte Whitner, Antoine Bethea, etc.

All I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of different ways to things and trading up for Watkins should be considered, even if it isn't executed. Like I said above, I'd be very happy with Gilbert at #10. But I'm a little worried if Gilbert is gone before the Lions' pick because I don't like the options that leaves us with, unless we're able to trade down.

 

[cheeno]

I think both Watkins brothers will be on our team come May.

 

[mhughes0021]

It's much easier to start a guard as a rookie than it is to start a WR as a rookie. That's not the greatest comparison. There's not as much of a learning curve.

I do agree that the draft is deep in WRs, but like you said, few WRs make an impact their first year. Because I think Watkins would make a big impact his rookie year, I think it'd be worth the trade if the front office decided to do it.

Who would you sign in free agency to be our #2 WR? The WR class in free agency is pretty poor this year. Decker, Nicks, etc. Decker is guaranteed to get overpaid because of the numbers he put up with Peyton. Nicks is very inconsistent and often injured.

I'd be happy if we drafted Gilbert at 10 (it's what I think is currently most likely). We could also draft a guy like Dennard if we trade back. But I'm not too interested in grabbing a mid-round CB. We have enough projects already. Slay, Bentley, and Houston should improve, Slay and Bentley because of experience and Houston because he should be healthy. Plus we can see if Green and Greenwood are ready to step up. CB is definitely not a strength, but I think having Teryl Austin as our DC will help them develop.

Also, I think we can address safety either through the draft or free agency. There are several possibilities in the draft like Haha Clinton-Dix, Calvin Pryor, Ahmad Dixon. If we go the free agency route we could sign Chris Clemons, James Ihedigbo, Donte Whitner, Antoine Bethea, etc.

All I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of different ways to things and trading up for Watkins should be considered, even if it isn't executed. Like I said above, I'd be very happy with Gilbert at #10. But I'm a little worried if Gilbert is gone before the Lions' pick because I don't like the options that leaves us with, unless we're able to trade down.

For some reason I cant get on the dennard bus....even if we trade down. I think id rather grab Haha or pryor if we traded down.

TJ Ward and Jairus Byrd are also options at safety in FA.

I too am scarred to death of Gilbert being gone....id be hoping for a trade down at that point. Id add Matthews, Evans, Ebron, Hageman to the list of trade down targets.