Last night's 9th inning debacle

[cmlfactor]

This is just not a championship caliber team out there. Sorry. Managerial side: Jimmy's horrible decision to once again put Valverde out there in a tie game. Has he learned NOTHING over the last season and a half? Did the same thing with Rodney in tie games...inexplicable stubbornness and stupidity. Defense side...you have a team trying to GIVE YOU outs with bunts...execute dammit!! I will give them credit for getting runners in from third with less that two out, something we've seen them epic fail on many times, but you have to play all aspects of the game in close games and their D upchucked all over Comerica last night.

Maybe I'm feeling fatalistic this morning. But I'm really starting to wonder if it is worth it to suffer through a division race that looks like it's going to go down to the last game of the season AGAIN...just to watch them get annihilated by one of the East teams, or lose in another fargin' one game playoff...

 

[biggunsbob]

Personally I would fire Jim right now... The Brewers did it a few years back and still made the playoffs.. The way the tigers lost this last series is unacceptable... From game one to game three.. The clown show that is Jim Leyland and his coaching staff is total bullshit.. I have had it with him...

 

[spockmaster]

im definitely NOT a fan of firing leyland mid-season because it would mean we would need an interim manager...and there's too great of a chance that would be either lloyd or lamont. as bad as leyland is, those two are far worse.

 

[tomdalton22]

I think you Leyland bashers are idiots. Valverde is the best relief pitcher they have. He has to get the job done and he didn't. You people are the same type that blame the teacher because your kid doesn't get straight A's or blame your boss because you aren't as successful at your job as you think you should be. The players have to execute and they didn't....that is the bottom line.

 

[spockmaster]

I think you Leyland bashers are idiots. Valverde is the best relief pitcher they have. He has to get the job done and he didn't. You people are the same type that blame the teacher because your kid doesn't get straight A's or blame your boss because you aren't as successful at your job as you think you should be. The players have to execute and they didn't....that is the bottom line.

yeah valverde has to perform, but truth be told he's proven time and time again that he CANT perform in this situation. ALL FOUR of his losses this year are games that he came in during the 9th in a tie game at home (read that last night in one of the game recaps). to put him in expecting a different result when he's shown that he cant pitch well in this situation is stupid, and on leyland.

in THEORY i agree with you about using your best reliever in this situation, but valverde has shown that he cant do it.

 

[cmlfactor]

My progression of emotions last night late in emoticons...

Thome put the Twinkies ahead and I was like
:-/
Betemit sac fly and I was all

Leyland brings in Valverde in a tie game and I'm all
???
Tigers D has a schizoid breakdown

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Valverde strikes out Plouffe and Mauer and I'm all

Morneau bats in go-ahead runs...

The realization that whoever wins this divison is probably only going to need about 85 wins
:-[
Realizing that with only one decent starter and no defense we probably will only get 84
:'(

 

[biggunsbob]

Maybe letting him go is too harsh but he still is not a good manager..

Valverde has come in in the 9th and lost the game IN NON SAVE SITUATIONS . There was no reason not to let JB come back out for the ninth.. From the way he has handled the bullpen to the t way he handles players like Inge, Magglio, Raburn, JP and Wilson B and others. He should have this club up by 7-10 games right now.. I hope he does not blow the division yet again this year. You Leyland lovers always say it is the player and not the manager but when the manger constantly put the same guys in to fail he has to take the blame for some of the terrible decisions he and his coaching staff make.. We all know Raburn cannot field on the infield but apparently Jimmy never looks at stats. The Same raburn who has 9 errors at second base in 42 games.. the sane Raburn who on August 16th 2009 played 3rd base and committed 2 errors that cost the tigers the game and eventually forced us into game 163. Or how about sticking with Inge for half a seasons batting .200 or less. Or his madding days off he has giving his starters.. This team cannot handle bunts... remember the 2006 world series... it has a clown coaching third base. I stand by what I said. This tame should be 7 games up at minimum right now. Or how about Wilson B's record as a starter when he is starting.. 11-3... Oh he is 3-11 when he is not starting... But Yippee lets get Don (freaking) Kelly more playing time.. Do they ever teach younger players like Dirks and others to take any pitches... It is so maddening the way this team is run..

 

[biggunsbob]

I cannot believe anybody would be defending Jim and his coaching staff after this last series.. This last series is a microcosm of the whole season and Jim's tenor in Detroit. God I want to break something..I am still boiling about pitching to Thome on Monday night and last nights debacle was even worse..

 

[tomdalton22]

I'm not a Leyland lover....I just may sound that way because I am the only one that doesn't blame him for everything that goes wrong with this team. Somebody said the Tigers would be 7-10 games up right now if it weren't for Leyland. Anybody that thinks that is delusional. Look at the pitching staff and defense. This team is exactly where it should be....a little over .500

 

[tycobb420]

Last night was a series of blunders. Why did Below give Thome anything to hit? Why was Valverde out there in the 9th when his ERA is higher than the stock market in non-save situations? Why the heck was Boesch waved in?? In addition to the other questionable moves, the M&M boys appeared to have awakened at just the wrong time.

 

[tycobb420]

PS: Some kudos to Brad Penny though....

 

[jimrice]

If people are trying to hang Leyland for Valverde giving up two in the ninth, I strongly disagree.

Who do you want, Perry? C'mon.

He put his best guy out there and he didn't get it done. There's nothing to criticize the manager about in that situation.

Bashing Leyland for making the right move makes you look dumb, not him.

 

[spockmaster]

i would have left Benoit in, he only faced one hitter in the 8th. let benoit work the 9th, then put valverde in for the 10th if there is still a tie, despite his troubles. given valverde's struggles in these situations, leaving benoit in would have been the better choice.

given the situation, putting valverde in with benoit still fresh and valverde's problems in these situations was the wrong decision. had benoit not been available, i would likely have had no problem with it.






there is at least one thing we can be thankful for; at least brad thomas isnt on the team anymore so leyland cant use him in these situations anymore.

 

[kalinecountry]

I'm not so much upset with Valverde and his problems in non-save as much as why not using Coke? 1/3 inning on the 16th.
Also, Tigers lack of defense (piss poor), was a large factor in last nights loss.

 

[beez]

I'm not a Leyland lover....I just may sound that way because I am the only one that doesn't blame him for everything that goes wrong with this team. Somebody said the Tigers would be 7-10 games up right now if it weren't for Leyland. Anybody that thinks that is delusional. Look at the pitching staff and defense. This team is exactly where it should be....a little over .500

yes

 

[beez]

If people are trying to hang Leyland for Valverde giving up two in the ninth, I strongly disagree.

Who do you want, Perry? C'mon.

He put his best guy out there and he didn't get it done. There's nothing to criticize the manager about in that situation.

Bashing Leyland for making the right move makes you look dumb, not him.

yes some more

 

[jimrice]

KalineCountry[/color]]I'm not so much upset with Valverde and his problems in non-save as much as why not using Coke? 1/3 inning on the 16th.
Also, Tigers lack of defense (piss poor), was a large factor in last nights loss.

Couldn't agree more. I didn't like the defense coming into the year, and it's been bad all year.

1 above average defender in A-Jax
A couple of average defenders and they rest below average to well below average.

It's not pretty.

 

[beez]

Everyone on the board is lynching Jim Leyland for putting Valverde in a tie game. Give me a break..I dont care what his numbers are before, if I have a guy who has a good era, and has been as good as valverde this year, I need to be able to trust he can get it done. If Cabrera had the night off and the game was tied would we not let him pinch hit in the clutch if he had a .200 BA this year as a pinch hitter..hell no. You put your best players in clutch situations..the rest is up to them. It's not Jim's fault for still believing is 35 save guy can get 3 outs in the 9th.

 

[deathroh]

Everyone on the board is lynching Jim Leyland for putting Valverde in a tie game. Give me a break..I dont care what his numbers are before, if I have a guy who has a good era, and has been as good as valverde this year, I need to be able to trust he can get it done. If Cabrera had the night off and the game was tied would we not let him pinch hit in the clutch if he had a .200 BA this year as a pinch hitter..hell no. You put your best players in clutch situations..the rest is up to them. It's not Jim's fault for still believing is 35 save guy can get 3 outs in the 9th.

No beez, you don't get it. Valverde has a mental block against pitching in a tied game. That's why he gave up a ground ball single, and as a team they allowed two bunters to reach base. He just can't cut it.

 

[mjsb2]

I'm fine with the decision to put Valverde in the game.

With New Mexico unavailable, he's the best option out of the bullpen.