Lions lowball George Johnson Bucs sign him to 3 year offer sheet

[inkfreq]

Most had him ahead of Ebron. I wanted him bad but knew the Lions were gonna screw it up and take Ebron and this year with Gurley or Gordon. Neither one will do poop unless we get a couple of starters on OLine after one of them, not to mention we need Dline and a corner.
That #10 really screwed this team for 2015 as it rears its ugly head following Suh and Fairly bolting.

Lions rolled those dice and came up empty.

They really believed they had Suh coming back. They had no doubts of it. Burned them in the ass.

Still though, I'd hate to see a team draft a guy they had rated lower (deserved or not) just because they are worried about what happens next off-season.

You play your draft board and next year is next year. Two things are certain in the NFL... tomorrow doesn't count and yesterday doesn't matter.

 

[inkfreq]

No he doesn't. But you're not very bright anyways. Tate had a huge year, but you'd rather see the ball go to Fuller or Ross all day, right? Seriously STFU. You're the same guy that cries when Stafford throws to his RBs and TEs on short routes. The man can never do no right in your eyes. You're pathetic.

I'm done with the childish Stafford arguments. He's our QB, and the people who want to see rainbows and ponies will, and the people who want to see ugly and reckless will.

Very few people can find the truth in between.

I've always wondered what was harder in Detroit.. being a Lions QB or being a Red Wings goalie. Seems like either way, no matter what, you're home "fans" say you're a peice of shit.

 

[mhughes0021]

I'm done with the childish Stafford arguments. He's our QB, and the people who want to see rainbows and ponies will, and the people who want to see ugly and reckless will.

Very few people can find the truth in between.

I've always wondered what was harder in Detroit.. being a Lions QB or being a Red Wings goalie. Seems like either way, no matter what, you're home "fans" say you're a peice of shit.

What i say doesn't matter. ....being 22nd in qbr does like 9 times out of 10. You can win with top 22 quarterbacks. ....its just much harder.

 

[inkfreq]

What i say doesn't matter. ....being 22nd in qbr does like 9 times out of 10. You can win with top 22 quarterbacks. ....its just much harder.

Still cherry picking any way you want to cut it man.

QBR is one stat, and a very flawed one that is argued all the time among stat geeks. Hell ESPN even came up with their own state, Total QBR, which is considered just as flawed.

But since Stafford ranks low in that category, we'll pick on that one.

Or road wins against teams with winning record. Another completely cherry picked stat. The argument relies on the assumption that the QB wins and loses the game. Dropped passes don't matter. Defensive play doesn't matter. It's all on him.

Funny thing... Suh has also not won a road game against a team with a winning record... but he's the "greatest DT in the game today"... how is it no one mentions him in that argument? Or Calvin?

A QB's job is to move the chains down field and put points on the board, and pretty much everything else the stat nerds want to argue is total bullshit.

Brett Favre was one of the best QBs of all time, and he has more TD passes than anyone except Peyton Manning. You know what else he had a lot of? INTs. Threw more of those than anyone ever.

And if you cherry pick his numbers that way, he was one of the worst QBs in history, and the stats prove it.

You guys are like Jim Carey in the Number 23, just seeing what you want to see everywhere you look.. and looking for the proof that you're right.

Stafford moves the ball, and puts up the yards. Last season was a down year, but you're talking about a guy who is already top 100 (84 to be exact) in passing yards ever, and is 92 in TDs all time, and he's only 27 years old.

He will likely rank in the top 25 in both categories before he retires, and there's a damned good chance he will rank #1 in both before it's over... and you guys will still be cherry picking his stats and blaming every loss on him.

 

[inkfreq]

And the shorter answer to the QBR argument would be here...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm

#33 all time in career QBR.

On a lost that includes Montana, Otto Graham, Aaron Rodgers, John Elway, Dan Marino, Peyton Manning, etc...

#33 all time is not exactly on the naughty list when #34 is Roger Staubach.

... #65 is Elway by the way.

 

[mhughes0021]

And the shorter answer to the QBR argument would be here...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm

#33 all time in career QBR.

On a lost that includes Montana, Otto Graham, Aaron Rodgers, John Elway, Dan Marino, Peyton Manning, etc...

#33 all time is not exactly on the naughty list when #34 is Roger Staubach.

... #65 is Elway by the way.

The stat isn't flawed when you're comparing qbs that played in the same year. If you want it to be flawed start comparing matt stafford to roger Staubach like 40 years apart.

Not sure how you can look at a list of qbr year after year and say is out of whack. ....its pretty much dead on. There are a couple outliers. ....but if you want me too believe that stafford is truly this great qb that just so happens to be an outlier every single year and somehow magically gets screwed when it comes to qbr and qb rating....well that just sounds lkp esque.

 

[inkfreq]

The stat isn't flawed when you're comparing qbs that played in the same year. If you want it to be flawed start comparing matt stafford to roger Staubach like 40 years apart.

Not sure how you can look at a list of qbr year after year and say is out of whack. ....its pretty much dead on. There are a couple outliers. ....but if you want me too believe that stafford is truly this great qb that just so happens to be an outlier every single year and somehow magically gets screwed when it comes to qbr and qb rating....well that just sounds lkp esque.

There's no outlier here. And no excuses. The guy is what he is.

I've never argued that he will be a HOFer one day, but I'm sure not going to sit back and tear the guy down like he's a worthless bum and pretend he's terrible.

He's clearly the best QB this team has ever had, including Landry and Layne, and in an era where the QB is called upon to do a lot more than hand it off 75% of the snaps. However, given a history of names like Batch, Harrington, Kitna, Pete, etc... it's not saying a whole lot.

You want to be convinced he's hot garbage based on your cherry picked stats be my guest, but in my honest opinion you have your head up your ass because you like to bitch too much. When you run out of things to bitch about, you make up new ones.

But, I said I was done with these arguments. Like him, hate him, or accept him, he's the QB of this team, and thats not likely to change for years to come. This board has turned every possible thread into a Stafford debate, and it's getting stale. He's not the only topic of conversation, but it's damned hard to find a thread that hasn't degenerated into a debate about his worthiness.

If a thread starts out talking about the damned waterboy it will turn into a Stafford sucks thread by page 3.

 

[Mitchrapp]

What 'hughes said is true..doesn't matter what we say but what the numbers say and where he ranks among other quarterbacks. Whether it be the rating, QBR, completion %, YPA, INT, etc. Pick one, pick several, pick them all..

They all have the same conclusion, that Matt is average to below average. I get tired talking about it too but it is what it is..

 

[brewer229]

The reason most conversations turn to Stafford is because that is a topic there is the most disagreement on.
When people agree the conversation ends quickly. People arent going to discuss the play of Levy, because most agree he is playing very well. There just isn't as much to debate/discuss.

As others pointed out using rating across generations is where the stat fails. 7 of the 8 highest players in lifetime QB rating are current players.

However when you look at all stats, against his peers, it comes to the same conclusion, he is averageish. Unless you Cherry pick yards. That is the one stats that makes him look good. He does throw the ball a lot and put up yards. Sweet for fantasy QB fans.

Funny though, YPA puts him back towards average. Being the best a team ever has doesn't make you the right person. Year 7 might be the year though.

Also interesting Lions best year is the year he is asked to manage a game to win more than throw to win a game.

But Damn can he throw a hard ball, he is like Zumaya.....

 

[jdeb]

Lions rolled those dice and came up empty.

They really believed they had Suh coming back. They had no doubts of it. Burned them in the ass.

Still though, I'd hate to see a team draft a guy they had rated lower (deserved or not) just because they are worried about what happens next off-season.

You play your draft board and next year is next year. Two things are certain in the NFL... tomorrow doesn't count and yesterday doesn't matter.

I agree but Mayhew drafts best player available. With all the scouting you would think he should have taken Donald. I understand it appears hindsight but most had Donald ahead of him, not to mention history proves you don't take TE at 10 and you're needs are greater.

 

[jdeb]

What i say doesn't matter. ....being 22nd in qbr does like 9 times out of 10. You can win with top 22 quarterbacks. ....its just much harder.

Qbr is a worthless stat in all reality. Its about winning games and Stafford did produce that last year. Not his fault for losing to Dallas. Bottom line.

 

[LKP]

Matt is good. Good enough to win 11 games with him at the helm. And good enough to win a playoff game with how he played in both playoff games he's been in.

We have no need at starting QB. He's a good QB.

You can't compare QBs. They all have different situations, weapons, Olines, run support, turnover support from their defense and schedule. All of that feeds into their stats.

Can we win a Super Bowl with Matt. The answer is a resounding yes. So pipe down.

 

[tonyballs]

Why is it that the "Umbrella Club" always says that Stafford throws so much and that's why he puts up so many yards? So what?! You still have to complete the passes and run the plays. Besides, our running game isn't exactly top notch since Stafford has been here. Bush and Bell are nice backs but, nobody is gameplanning around them.
And nobody gives a fuck how hard Staff throws the football. You pussies complain that he throws it too hard anyways and it's his fault that we lead the league in dropped passes every year...lol. You're in the NFL....catch the fkn football!! End of story...

 

[LKP]

Why is it that the "Umbrella Club" always says that Stafford throws so much and that's why he puts up so many yards? So what?! You still have to complete the passes and run the plays. Besides, our running game isn't exactly top notch since Stafford has been here. Bush and Bell are nice backs but, nobody is gameplanning around them.
And nobody gives a fuck how hard Staff throws the football. You pussies complain that he throws it too hard anyways and it's his fault that we lead the league in dropped passes every year...lol. You're in the NFL....catch the fkn football!! End of story...

Stafford throws so much because he produces alot of first downs. This leads to more throws. And since our run game isn't effective and doesn't get us many first downs, he has to throw alot for us to move the ball. Plus if a weapon doesn't get open or drops the ball on 1st or 2nd, it's going to take an extra throw or two. Some are misses too but if he has the yardage, it's not really from misses that much.

 

[inkfreq]

I agree but Mayhew drafts best player available. With all the scouting you would think he should have taken Donald. I understand it appears hindsight but most had Donald ahead of him, not to mention history proves you don't take TE at 10 and you're needs are greater.

Kind of like bombing an aspirin factory in Iraq. Clinton took all the hea for that one, but it wasn't Clinton providing the intel, gathering the data, and making the recommendation. It was Clinton who listened to the advice of the Joint Chiefs of Staff who said "Hey, this is actually an WMD factory, and we have to take it out now"... and Clinton did. Oops. If he hadn't listened to the intel from the chiefs as well as the CIA, he would have been an idiot that put lives at risk.

The Lions have a large scouting staff. Those are the guys putting together the draft reports, working with the coaching staff on systems, and proving the "intel". They are the guys who tell Mayhew "The are the final draft day grades, and these are our blue chip players."

I don't know, maybe Ebron looks like King Shit on Turd Mountain this season.. or maybe we blew up an aspirin factory. Either way, his job is to listen to the guys who put it all together, and fire them if they are stupid.

 

[brewer229]

Matt is good. Good enough to win 11 games with him at the helm. And good enough to win a playoff game with how he played in both playoff games he's been in.

We have no need at starting QB. He's a good QB.

You can't compare QBs. They all have different situations, weapons, Olines, run support, turnover support from their defense and schedule. All of that feeds into their stats.

Can we win a Super Bowl with Matt. The answer is a resounding yes. So pipe down.

There are about 20-25 QBs in this league right now you can win the Superbowl with. But realistically only about 10 that could win it on multiple teams. Stafford isn't in that group. He needs a lot to go right around him to do that.

It's funny/sad, they have been trying so hard to build a top offensive team, that when they finally realized they accidentally built a championship quality defense, they don't have the money to keep it because of all money spent on offense.

This will be an interesting draft, do they build on a quality defense, or do they continue to try and throw more "weapons" and assets into the offense. Our best year was when the offense was asked to not screw it up as opposed to go out and win.

 

[brewer229]

Why is it that the "Umbrella Club" always says that Stafford throws so much and that's why he puts up so many yards? So what?! You still have to complete the passes and run the plays. Besides, our running game isn't exactly top notch since Stafford has been here. Bush and Bell are nice backs but, nobody is gameplanning around them.
And nobody gives a fuck how hard Staff throws the football. You pussies complain that he throws it too hard anyways and it's his fault that we lead the league in dropped passes every year...lol. You're in the NFL....catch the fkn football!! End of story...

People complain he has no touch (see pettigrew interference play). He only relies on his cannon arm. Which is helpful for some throws, especially over the middle. This isn't hard to understand, to be successful you need more than one type of throw. At times a hard ball isn't the correct throw, other times it is.

 

[inkfreq]

There are about 20-25 QBs in this league right now you can win the Superbowl with. But realistically only about 10 that could win it on multiple teams. Stafford isn't in that group. He needs a lot to go right around him to do that.

It's funny/sad, they have been trying so hard to build a top offensive team, that when they finally realized they accidentally built a championship quality defense, they don't have the money to keep it because of all money spent on offense.

This will be an interesting draft, do they build on a quality defense, or do they continue to try and throw more "weapons" and assets into the offense. Our best year was when the offense was asked to not screw it up as opposed to go out and win.

The simple answer is yes, to both.

I see this draft as having three key needs, three positions you have to address in no particular order...

Offensive Line
Defensive Line
Running Back (weapon)

I don't see Rieff moving inside to guard, but he could move to right tackle. More likely answer is we use a mid round pick on an interior guard. Lucas will play the swing role and we all hope Waddle returns healthy.

Defensive line really means Defensive Tackle, but there are a few good hybrid DE/DTs in this year's draft, and with Ngata able to play he 3-4, hard to say for sure.

Running Back is where they add a weapon at need, and they probably add a WR later too.

We have five picks now, and will likely look to move around and pick up more during the draft. If they draft smart, they can go RB, OT, DT early, OG and WR in the mid, and still come out of this with five potential starters.

Now come the inevitable comments about how Mayhew never drafts smart, we'll draft injured players, and round 2 is a bust already. Maybe all true, I'm just saying that it doesn't take genius to fill the holes in this years draft.

 

[tonyballs]

There are about 20-25 QBs in this league right now you can win the Superbowl with. But realistically only about 10 that could win it on multiple teams. Stafford isn't in that group. He needs a lot to go right around him to do that.

It's funny/sad, they have been trying so hard to build a top offensive team, that when they finally realized they accidentally built a championship quality defense, they don't have the money to keep it because of all money spent on offense.

This will be an interesting draft, do they build on a quality defense, or do they continue to try and throw more "weapons" and assets into the offense. Our best year was when the offense was asked to not screw it up as opposed to go out and win.

Accidentally built a championship defense? Can you not give them credit for anything?

 

[LKP]

There are about 20-25 QBs in this league right now you can win the Superbowl with. But realistically only about 10 that could win it on multiple teams. Stafford isn't in that group. He needs a lot to go right around him to do that.

It's funny/sad, they have been trying so hard to build a top offensive team, that when they finally realized they accidentally built a championship quality defense, they don't have the money to keep it because of all money spent on offense.

This will be an interesting draft, do they build on a quality defense, or do they continue to try and throw more "weapons" and assets into the offense. Our best year was when the offense was asked to not screw it up as opposed to go out and win.

Stafford can win with any of the playoff teams including Detroit. No doubt. And winning with Detroit is all that matters.

His 2nd round weapons were hurt or crazy. 2011 they were at their best and he had 41 TDs (note all 4 main weapons stayed healthy). 2012 lots of injuries especially last 6 games (Burleson, Broyles, Young and Pettigrew).

2013 he had just Calvin and Burleson for half the year and lots of Durham. Stafford made due with 29 Tds and good 3rd down % and plenty of yards (first downs). Fumbles by others and picks not his fault killed him. 2014 they got an upgrade at number 2 but then the Oline problems (injuries) kicked in and Bush hurt. Calvin and the TEs hurt some too.

Calvin, Tate, Ebron and solid protection, Stafford can lead a top 5 offense. Too many injuries last year for that too happen plus it was a new offense. This year we'll see the talent come together hopefully and stay healthy and have a Oline good enough to give decent protection.