Mark Stoops

[Spartanmack]

I don't put a ton of stock into the stars themselves - in the past I've seen kids go from 3 to 4 or 4 to 5 just because they got offered by ND. But I do look at them in the aggregate. Again, they're not perfect but I don't have the time to travel the country watching h.s. football myself so there's not much choice. My whole "issue" is that we haven't capitalized on our on-field success (particularly w/ elite defensive recruits) or more importantly, the problems Michigan had recently - those kids went to osu and other schools, not MSU. I see 8 total but noticed that 247 has half the class rated 4 stars. Ignoring 247, 5 of 13 are rated 4 stars by Rivals or Scout. Surprisingly, none of the 5 is rated 4 stars by both scout and rivals.

Here's a question - is 2 star Jalen Watts-Jackson the next Johnny Adams? Let's hope not! hahahahahaha!

 

[johnny2x2x]

One example is matt sokol, unranked in all services at qb but MSU wants him to play TE, he's 6'5" 220 with a good frame to put on muscle. he was unranked but never played TE in HS, then became a 3 star after committing to MSU

rankings matter but not as much as you would think

Exactly. We've burned the services too many times that we're now seeing our recruits get bumps just like some of the other schools do. Sokel went from not ranked to a high 3 star and could possibly be a 4 star at some point. Why? I know he had one great camp at TE, but I think it's more about the services knowing that MD and company can pick talent.

Something else to consider is a school like Alabama, does Alabama get the best players or does Alabama and Nick Saban turn their guys into the best players? Sure Bama gets what the services think are the best players every year, but it's Bama that turns that into multiple 1st round picks every draft. You think those same players would be 1st round picks still had they gone to Washington State or Indiana? The best programs produce the most NFL players. MSU has been producing NFL players at a rate 2nd to only OSU in the B1G in recent years.

It's about picking the talent and then developing it. Both Nick Saban and Jim Tressell said there is no coach they've ever seen who can evaluate talent better than MD. The NFL draft each spring is showing he can also develop that talent too.

 

[Sbee]

Exactly. We've burned the services too many times that we're now seeing our recruits get bumps just like some of the other schools do. Sokel went from not ranked to a high 3 star and could possibly be a 4 star at some point. Why? I know he had one great camp at TE, but I think it's more about the services knowing that MD and company can pick talent.

Something else to consider is a school like Alabama, does Alabama get the best players or does Alabama and Nick Saban turn their guys into the best players? Sure Bama gets what the services think are the best players every year, but it's Bama that turns that into multiple 1st round picks every draft. You think those same players would be 1st round picks still had they gone to Washington State or Indiana? The best programs produce the most NFL players. MSU has been producing NFL players at a rate 2nd to only OSU in the B1G in recent years.

It's about picking the talent and then developing it. Both Nick Saban and Jim Tressell said there is no coach they've ever seen who can evaluate talent better than MD. The NFL draft each spring is showing he can also develop that talent too.

with Bama, I think it's a combination of a lot of things. they get great talent and do a good job of developing it. they also cheat but that's another matter.

the NFL is not like the NBA, if you're talented, the NBA will find you. Tony Bennett was the #1 pick from UNLV, didn't play on a great team or with great competition. I know Fisher went #1 this year but this year was rare with him and Ansah going so high. in football, it's hard to evaluate the individual. Gholston looked great as a sophomore, mainly because Worthy was right next to him drawing a lot of attention. last year gholston looked average at best and fell to the 4th round. at a small school, you don't have a jerel worthy next to you so the talented player draws the double team.

 

[Sbee]

I don't put too much stock in the rankings themselves - i've seen kids go from 3 to 4 or 4 to 5 just because the got offered by ND. So I don't really care if someone is a solid 3 or a weak 4. But I do look at them in the aggregate. i don't have time to travel the country watching h.s. football so there isn't much choice. I think it's disappointing and discouraging that we weren't able to take better advantage of our on-field success (particularly w/ elite defensive talent) and especially that we weren't able to capitalize on the problems in aa and to a lesser extent, columbus.

I'll wait until everyone's signed and done before judging this class. Early returns are encouraging although I count 8 in total but note that 247 has half the class ranked 4-star. Neither Rivals (2) and Scout (3) even come close to that. Interesting that Rivals and Scout don't rate any of the same commits as 4 stars.

Here's a question: does anyone think 2-star Jalen Watts-Jackson is the next Johnny Adams? Let's hope not, that kid couldn't cover a twin size mattress with a king size blanket! hahahahahahaha!

Watts Jackson was injured for his entire junior year so he's not going to be high in the rankings. I listen to the podcasts on rivals and they said that he didn't look that good against MAC level receivers and they were surprised he got a MSU offer. I also read later though that he had a great 40 time and they didn't release it.

like I said, a few of those long shots are great, you just don't want a class full of them.

 

[Spartanmack]

Where have you been Johnny2x2x? I had this fight over Nick Saban being a great developer of talent over and over again w/ the knucklehead haters on the MSU ESPN forum. All you have to do to see that he gets it done on the recruiting trail, in camp/practice and on the sideline is look at Charlie Weiss. If all you have to do is recruit then Charlie Weiss would have 3+ NCs by now and still be in south bend. Most people of those same people were also pointing out that RR got top 10 recruiting classes but MD owned him with lower rated players. Total contradiction. He may be a complete a-hole but Nick Saban is as good or better than any coach in the game in every aspect of it.

 

[Spartanmack]

Sbee, that was a joke about Johnny Adams not Jalen Watt-Jackson. Just a friendly reminder how dead wrong the homers were about Johnny being and elite cornerback. He could blitz and tackle but he couldn't cover a twin size mattress w/ a king size blanket. In the end, he was a 3 star prospect who had a 3 star career.

 

[johnny2x2x]

Where have you been Johnny2x2x? I had this fight over Nick Saban being a great developer of talent over and over again w/ the knucklehead haters on the MSU ESPN forum. All you have to do to see that he gets it done on the recruiting trail, in camp/practice and on the sideline is look at Charlie Weiss. If all you have to do is recruit then Charlie Weiss would have 3+ NCs by now and still be in south bend. Most people of those same people were also pointing out that RR got top 10 recruiting classes but MD owned him with lower rated players. Total contradiction. He may be a complete a-hole but Nick Saban is as good or better than any coach in the game in every aspect of it.

The thing that Saban does better than any coach is getting his guys to recognize opportunities and make plays. Bama players rarely drop balls, rarely miss blocks, rarely miss tackles or assignments. It's on another level than even the pros even though the pros obviously have more talent. I think it starts with how tough Saban is and how he promotes competition in practice, those guys are scared to drop balls. Watching Bama the last 4+ years you see a higher % of plays being made than any team going including the pros. I have a ton of respect for how high of a level Saban gets kids to perform.

USC has had better classes than Bama and is doing jackshit with it right now comparitively, didn't USC get 8 Five Star recruits in a recent class? Texas pulls just as good of classes as Bama does year in and year out too. All 4 and 5 star guys guarantee nothing.

 

[Spartanmack]

Don't forget the fact that his offensive line (and defensive lines) absolutely dominate. His playmakers can make plays largely because his grunts control the line. To me, that has been the Achilles heel for the Spartans for years if not decades.

 

[Sbee]

Don't forget the fact that his offensive line (and defensive lines) absolutely dominate. His playmakers can make plays largely because his grunts control the line. To me, that has been the Achilles heel for the Spartans for years if not decades.

OL has been decent but we aren't putting a lot of players in the NFL. DL has actually been really good over the last few seasons. Those line positions are the toughest to project because of how much these guys bodies change from 16 to 22. you just look for an OL with the right frame and then try to reshape their bodies to have more good weight. most OL who are 16 are big, fat kids that can't be moved in HS football but don't have the strength to go along with it yet.

 

[Spartanmack]

The OL has been horrible for a long time now. They looked decent in 2010 and 2011 because the Spartans had 2 solid tailbacks and a very good group of receivers and tight ends. But the reality is that they were not good. That along with creative play calling kept defenses at bay - it was not the OL. I know everyone makes excuses for injuries, particularly last year but the starters weren't very good to begin with and the kids that replaced them were just bad. Everyone talks about Fuo Funoti like he's some kind of god but he was clueless until late October in his first year and spent all of last year injured. Having him back may be better than the alternative but nothing to get too excited about. And Skyler Burkland - c'mon this kid was one of our most highly regarded OL recruits in years and the kid couldn't even crack the starting lineup as a junior. He came in as a replacement and almost got Maxwell killed. There's a reason we don't put lineman in the nfl.

I agree w/ you re: the DL - very, very solid and when Worthy was there it was spectacular. If he stayed last year we prob win at least 2 more games.