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Mike Ilitch gone now Chris Ilitch possibly selling the Tigers?

kingofdetroit57 said:
You know nothing about me, my education, or my background, so cool it on the insults.

If you bothered to look at the Forbes data, you'd realize that negative number you are fixated on is exactly what I said it was.

http://www.forbes.com/teams/detroit-tigers/

See footnote 3 at the very bottom of the page where it says that the -$20.7mil operating income is EBITDA. As you typically do though, feel free to keep grandstanding.

As for the "cash infusions", as I already explained, any capital investment back into the business can contribute toward a negative operating income. That could be money into the facilities (e.g., the big shiny new scoreboard in LF or paying ahead on the mortgage), salaries (e.g., signing big name players who sell more jerseys, make the team more competitive/interesting and also put butts in the seats), or any number of other things. At the end of the day, that investment is hopefully a wise one that results in an increased franchise valuation. According to Forbes, it clearly has, as the value of the organization has nearly doubled between 2013 and 2015.

In basic terms, it takes money to make money and sometimes it is beneficial to show a short term operating loss if that's driven by investment into operations. If that's wise or not often depends on the objective and the duration of the investment. If you are in it for the long term, it makes sense to spend money on improving facilities, fielding a competitive and interesting team, paying down/off debts, etc., because it increases interest in the team. That typically means higher ticket sales, concessions, and merchandise, more lucrative media and licensing deals, etc. All stuff that boosts the value of the organization and will soon go toward increasing revenue, and hopefully margins. I believe the Tigers are doing all of these things based on what I see and hear from them, but what do I know? You clearly have it all figured out, so keep on preaching and we'll just sit back and soak up all the wisdom.
Click to expand...


I stand corrected on EBITDA. But it still doesn't shore your footing at all.

You just post more conjecture on your part. You offer no proof of anything. I at least analyzed all 30 MLB teams' worth of data and provided the results.

You completely dismiss the fact that they are -$198 Mil Operating Income from the MLB average over the last 7 years. Or the fact that all franchise values have appreciated by 60% on average over the last 7 years The data is there. Then add the fact that they have been rated as having the worst farm system in the majors. Did they spend money improving their Lakeland Spring Training facilities?

Also, as far as ticket price increase.

https://www.teammarketing.com/public/uploadedPDFs/2015 mlb fci (1).pdf

The Tigers' increased tickets by 2.8%, below the league average of 3.3%. Their Fan Cost Index only increase 1.5%, compared the league average of 2.5%.

Viewership of Fox Sports Detroit for Tiger games are down. Attendance averaged 38,067 per game in 2013, to 36,015 per game in 2014 and finally to 33,655 per game in 2015. Losing 2-3,000 per game is significant. All while adding payroll. You don't think this plays a significance in the reason they have had negative operating income?

Percentage of player expenses vs revenue in 2015

PHI 74.7%
DET 72.4%

TOR 67.8%
LAD 66.5%
TEX 61.7%

LAA 59.9%
ARZ 59.2%
CIN 57.3%
MIL 55.8%
COL 53.3%
WSN 53.3%
OAK 50.5%
TBR 50.0%
BAL 49.8%
CHW 49.3%
BOS 49.2%
KCR 48.9%
CLE 48.8%
SEA 48.4%
ATL 47.6%
MIN 47.5%
NYY 47.4%
SDG 45.5%
SFG 45.5%
STL 45.2%
PIT 40.2%
HOU 40.0%
NYM 39.9%
MIA 38.3%
CHC 36.8%

If you take this same data and compile for the last 7 years, you will also see that DET and PHI, the two teams with highest negative operating income over the last 7 years, also have the highest percentage of players expenses to revenue. But what do I know. This has nothing to do with the negative operating income.
 
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Rebbiv said:
I stand corrected on EBITDA. But it still doesn't shore your footing at all.

You just post more conjecture on your part. You offer no proof of anything. I at least analyzed all 30 MLB teams' worth of data and provided the results.

You completely dismiss the fact that they are -$198 Mil Operating Income from the MLB average over the last 7 years. Or the fact that all franchise values have appreciated by 60% on average over the last 7 years The data is there. Then add the fact that they have been rated as having the worst farm system in the majors. Did they spend money improving their Lakeland Spring Training facilities?

Also, as far as ticket price increase.

https://www.teammarketing.com/public/uploadedPDFs/2015 mlb fci (1).pdf

The Tigers' increased tickets by 2.8%, below the league average of 3.3%. Their Fan Cost Index only increase 1.5%, compared the league average of 2.5%.

Viewership of Fox Sports Detroit for Tiger games are down. Attendance averaged 38,067 per game in 2013, to 36,015 per game in 2014 and finally to 33,655 per game in 2015. Losing 2-3,000 per game is significant. All while adding payroll. You don't think this plays a significance in the reason they have had negative operating income?

Percentage of player expenses vs revenue in 2015

PHI 74.7%
DET 72.4%

TOR 67.8%
LAD 66.5%
TEX 61.7%

LAA 59.9%
ARZ 59.2%
CIN 57.3%
MIL 55.8%
COL 53.3%
WSN 53.3%
OAK 50.5%
TBR 50.0%
BAL 49.8%
CHW 49.3%
BOS 49.2%
KCR 48.9%
CLE 48.8%
SEA 48.4%
ATL 47.6%
MIN 47.5%
NYY 47.4%
SDG 45.5%
SFG 45.5%
STL 45.2%
PIT 40.2%
HOU 40.0%
NYM 39.9%
MIA 38.3%
CHC 36.8%

If you take this same data and compile for the last 7 years, you will also see that DET and PHI, the two teams with highest negative operating income over the last 7 years, also have the highest percentage of players expenses to revenue. But what do I know. This has nothing to do with the negative operating income.
Click to expand...
Yes, in fact, they have committed to spend at least $37mil on the Lakeland facilities.

http://www.theledger.com/article/20150324/NEWS/150329575

They put $10mil into the video board, $4mil into Pepsi Porch and seating, and an unknown amount into WiFi and flatscreens at Comerica Park in recent years too.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/articl...y-gets-wi-fi-and-cellular-upgrades-are-coming

I'm sure they've done several other multi-million dollar facilities upgrades across their properties too.

To one of your other points, their minor league roster has little to nothing to do with the conversation here since players are drafted or signed for very little money. Their ineptitude with drafting is a baseball issue, not a financial one, so you can drop that argument.

You don't seem to grasp the difference between losing value and showing an operating loss on paper. You also like to try to put words in my mouth that I never said. I'm not going to keep wasting my time trying to explain either to you. Just keep telling yourself that you are right and that's all that matters.
 
My feeling is the I family will own the Tigers and Wings as long as Mr. I is alive. Once he goes, then all bets are off (but I bet they keep the Wings).
 
Yeah, that article is careful not to suggest that there is ANY indication that they plan to sell.
But it creates buzz like they are.

Pretty messed up.

How long have you .............deleted.


If you continue to troll, and make the types of insults to a poster regarding a member of his family, you will be suspended or Banned.
KC
 
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Not sure what they say now but I've read stuff over the years that points to the Ilitch kids aren't interested in the Tigers.
 
Mitchrapp said:
Not sure what they say now but I've read stuff over the years that points to the Ilitch kids aren't interested in the Tigers.
Click to expand...

I have read the same kind of rumors. I think it is reasonable to assume that even if the Illich family keeps the Tigers there will be some major changes as far as how they run the team.
 
kingofdetroit57 said:
Yes, in fact, they have committed to spend at least $37mil on the Lakeland facilities.

http://www.theledger.com/article/20150324/NEWS/150329575

They put $10mil into the video board, $4mil into Pepsi Porch and seating, and an unknown amount into WiFi and flatscreens at Comerica Park in recent years too.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/articl...y-gets-wi-fi-and-cellular-upgrades-are-coming

I'm sure they've done several other multi-million dollar facilities upgrades across their properties too.

To one of your other points, their minor league roster has little to nothing to do with the conversation here since players are drafted or signed for very little money. Their ineptitude with drafting is a baseball issue, not a financial one, so you can drop that argument.

You don't seem to grasp the difference between losing value and showing an operating loss on paper. You also like to try to put words in my mouth that I never said. I'm not going to keep wasting my time trying to explain either to you. Just keep telling yourself that you are right and that's all that matters.
Click to expand...

First, it was the state of Florida, Polk County and the city of Lakeland that has ponied up the $37 Mil to upgrade the facilities at Tigertown, not the Detroit Tigers. Another swing, another miss.

Those construction costs total $37 million, with $20 million coming from the state, $14.6 million from the Polk County bed tax and $2.4 million from the city.

Next, it was MLB, not the Tigers, that spent on Wi-Fi and Celluar upgrades to Comerica. Yes, the spent $10 Mil upgrading the video board in 2012, but Detroit-Wayne County Stadium Authority owns Comerica, so the Tigers would not receive a direct benefit for doing this upgrade. In fact, any money spent by the Tigers on Comerica Park would have no value on future revenue.

Lastly, MLB teams spend more than just player monies on minor leagues. There are coaches, scouts, staff, etc, etc who are covered and their associated travel and per diems. First year minor league players make $1,100 a month, paid by the MLB club, plus $25 a day meal money while on the road. Do the math.
 
Chris wants a crack at building a Stanley Cup team and World Series team. But will the rest of the Ilitch clan talk him out of pursuing his own dreams?

..... and will Dan Gilbert eventually get the Tigers and Tom Gores become sole owner of Little Caesars Arena, by purchasing the Red Wings?
 
It's been reported that the TV deals with the Red Wings and Tigers both expire in 2021 and Illich holdings is exploring creating their own local sports network. If they do, they would have even more incentive to put a quality product on the field the year they start their new network.
 
Tigers are a complete a utter disaster sadly.
 
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I'm excited for their future. I see a lot of things to like. Only negatives are another year of Zimmerman and like a decade of Miggy collecting a ridiculous paycheck.
 
https://totallytigers.wordpress.com/2019/11/28/would-you-rather-4/
WOULD YOU RATHER?
Totally Tigers

With the holiday season upon us, let?s have some more fun with our newest blog, Would You Rather.

As you will see, the choices aren?t easy ? and that?s the way it?s meant to be. But it is meant to stir up some good discussion.

As always, we welcome your comments, so please vote and then submit your reasons ( 4 sentences max!) for how you voted in the usual comment box. Don?t forget to come back later and view the results!

What would make you the most thankful? Would you rather...

1. Start to see evidence of a logical plan to completely overhaul the Tiger organization under Chris Ilitch.

2. Have confirmation that Dan Gilbert will indeed purchase the team.

Vote.
 
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