more Hokeness

[biggunsbob]

I wonder when the Axe will come?

 

[TheVictors]

I wonder when the Axe will come?

LOL

http://www.detroitsportsforum.com/showthread.php?t=18010

 

[Michlady]

Fanbase and Dave Brandon drive rich out if town

He would. It have been fired after three years if Martin had still Ben AD

Just call this a lost decade

 

[rumseyhouse77]

Fanbase and Dave Brandon drive rich out if town

He would. It have been fired after three years if Martin had still Ben AD

Just call this a lost decade

People who say RR was driven out obviously were not paying attention while he was here. RR was not going to be successful at Michigan. He and Michigan were better off going their own ways. Now, Michigan got Hoke and that as not worked out well, but let's move on.

 

[bamf_16]

People who say RR was driven out obviously were not paying attention while he was here. RR was not going to be successful at Michigan. He and Michigan were better off going their own ways. Now, Michigan got Hoke and that as not worked out well, but let's move on.

Yep. Obviously.

What else is/was obvious is that a superior head coach was driven out compared to the one brought in.

At least we can all agree that we won't have to deal with that again, right?

 

[Michchamp]

Yep. Obviously.

What else is/was obvious is that a superior head coach was driven out compared to the one brought in.

At least we can all agree that we won't have to deal with that again, right?

was reading a long post on scout a week ago that basically said a lot I agree with. certain coaches and guys like RR in particular, are best suited for a particular type of program, but aren't really universal kind all around good coaches that can go anywhere and win.

I think hoke is closer to that mold, but he's just not up to the level of what it takes to win in the Big Ten.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Yep. Obviously.

What else is/was obvious is that a superior head coach was driven out compared to the one brought in.

At least we can all agree that we won't have to deal with that again, right?

I wish I had a crystal ball. I could've look into the future, and seeing what coach would've worked out.

Or I could've looked into the past, and seeing what coach would have been successful if he had been retained one more year.

Or I could have a look in the mirror and said to myself? "Why are you being such a moron? You can rule the world? Forget about who gets to coach at Michigan?"

 

[bamf_16]

was reading a long post on scout a week ago that basically said a lot I agree with. certain coaches and guys like RR in particular, are best suited for a particular type of program, but aren't really universal kind all around good coaches that can go anywhere and win.

I think hoke is closer to that mold, but he's just not up to the level of what it takes to win in the Big Ten.

Can't disagree with that totally. The question I guess to be asked is "why?" And I think on the other side of that coin, there are schools at which a guy has a better chance of avoiding being cast as a "can't win here" type.

I can speak to a lot of the football side of things as to why it didn't work out, but culturally, not so much. I'm not a rich alum, booster, or annual season ticket holder (bought the season ticket flex pack or whatever it was for the 2009 season). I don't hold Michigan to some mythical higher standard and look at a back country dude like RR as inferior in any way, shape, or form.

We're going through something similar in Pittsburgh, (Allegheny County is one of the top 5 oldest counties in America b/c of so many retirees who won't leave or die already) who are resisting resigning Roethlisberger to the huge contract you'd expect a franchise QB to get and who want a 55%-45% split (minimum) rushing vs. passing, because they long for the days of Franco Harris and Rocky Bleier, not realizing Jerome Bettis only "brought" a championship when the offense opened up.

Trying to do what Bo did right now in the 21st Century is lunacy, idiocy, suicidal, whatever description you want to use. This whole "MANBALL" BS and mythical worship of Michigan football's past is going to damn the university and its prospects for football success. Guess what, folks, Bo's way isn't the only way, Bo didn't do shit on the national stage, he had a losing record in Bowl games, and didn't win a national championship! He was a great, but not elite coach.

The fanbase in AA is comfortable with a slow, white QB who calls "hike" with 1 second left on the playclock and ensures that his team wins the "time of possession" stat. They want their big, lumbering 4 man fronts with 3 stacked linebackers who weigh 240 pounds and they don't want to hear about why Jake Ryan was moved inside as much as they'd rather long for the days when Jake Ryan would be an outside linebacker on all 3 downs because teams didn't do what they do now. The UM culture calls for this, and a guy who says "ain't" runs a hurry up, a different defense, and "who isn't from 'round these parts" shocks their culture, their ideal of what "should be" even though someone else does it differently (maybe even better.)

Hopefully the UM asshats learned from these last 4 years. Hopefully they've seen the error of their ways. But I doubt it.

My dream was to go to Michigan and play football. I was a 5'11, 240 pound 3 technique defensive lineman who at times played (and got his ass kicked) end when we dabbled in the 3-3-5 against teams that tried a 90s version of the Run & Shoot or early version of the spread. I didn't have a hamster's chance in a microwave of playing at UM. But my childhood is filled with Michigan memories, shirts, hats, posters, being the only kid in school who liked the team, and laying on my bed with aluminum foil on the antenna of the radio on the nightstand because I was convinced it and turning the volume up all the way was the only way to be able to hear the play by play through all the static before the days of every game being on TV or the internet. I don't have a relationship with the school. I'm starting to wonder if now as an adult it's time for me to "put away childish things" because the attitude and arrogance of the fanbase of that school sickens me. It absolutely sickens me. But as my other childhood obsession, Led Zeppelin famously taught us, "I Can't Quit You, Baby."

 

[bamf_16]

Football-wise, RR brought the 3-3-5 defense to a conference with less spread and more traditional pro-style, and did it with undersized defensive linemen and linebackers who just didn't have enough talent, and had a coordinator seemingly hired for him completely unqualified to run that defense.

In the B1G, to run a 3-3-5 you'd need a guy at least 310 in the middle (prefer closer to 330) with 2 DEs at least 300 pounds each. RR tried it with 250 pound Craig Roh, 298 pound Mike Martin, and 295 pound Ryan Van Bergen. He needed bigger guys up front. At LB, you need a MLB who can read and flow to the ball. UM had Obi Ezeh and Kenny Demens.

You also need a DC to design elaborate blitzes that confuse the offense. UM hired Greg Robinson, a 4-3 Cover 2 coordinator whose whole life has been calling a defense that doesn't blitz much. He didn't know how to design them, and how/when to call them. HORRIBLE fit.

This current UM team could in my opinion make that defense work next year should that system be brought back to AA. Mone and Pipkins have the bodies to be in the middle. Wormley and Henry would be my top choices at end, with Glasgow being primary backup at each of those spots. Problem here is that Charlton, Ojemudia, and Poggi are left to either gain a ton of weight, or be specialty guys on 3rd and 10 or more where they are simply edge rushers with no responsibilities on a running play. Charlton could do that. Ojemudia would likely become an outside linebacker at 250 pounds.

In the middle a guy like James Ross has the experience to be the first guy in line to be the MLB, but UM has some rangier LBs who I'm excited to see next year, regardless of the defense they bring in.

 

[Michlady]

was reading a long post on scout a week ago that basically said a lot I agree with. certain coaches and guys like RR in particular, are best suited for a particular type of program, but aren't really universal kind all around good coaches that can go anywhere and win.

I think hoke is closer to that mold, but he's just not up to the level of what it takes to win in the Big Ten.

Agree with this

I too think rich would have had limited longer term success here

I think brandon was part of the issue in finding a new HC

 

[bamf_16]

Agree with this

I too think rich would have had limited longer term success here

I think brandon was part of the issue in finding a new HC

I'll show my ignorance here.

I (like most) discovered that Dave Brandon was wrong for UM for so many reasons.

How many people realized this back in 2010 when RR was fired? Was his reputation that bad back during the coaching search that resulted in Hoke?

Or was the 2010 coaching search the beginning of that realization for most?

 

[Michchamp]

Can't disagree with that totally. The question I guess to be asked is "why?" And I think on the other side of that coin, there are schools at which a guy has a better chance of avoiding being cast as a "can't win here" type.

...

I think guys like RR come with a lot of baggage... and an "entourage" of helpers and slappies that support them. and in RR's case there was his shady agent handling the dirty work.

Where there's not any sort of tradition or an existing network of former players, coaches, Athletic Department staff and alumni involved in the program, the entourage can do what they want. Obviously here at Michigan, there was a clash between the two, and the same thing would likely happen at any school with a winning tradition and support & booster network.

Personally, I don't think this was any excuse for RR to fail... anymore than a sea captain can blame the ocean for his ship sinking... that's just the way things are at Michigan, and it's his fault for not understanding it and working with the Program, instead of against it.

A place like Arizona is a lot better for him & his minions.

Whether we need spread football or pro-style football... meh, that's a different discussion.

I'll show my ignorance here.

I (like most) discovered that Dave Brandon was wrong for UM for so many reasons.

How many people realized this back in 2010 when RR was fired? Was his reputation that bad back during the coaching search that resulted in Hoke?

Or was the 2010 coaching search the beginning of that realization for most?

ML has more insider information, but from the outside and the other alums I talked to, DB seemed to be everything we wanted in an AD. He had a few red flags there, but after the BM/RR debacle, no one was going to dwell on those.

It wasn't until year 2 of Brady Hoke's tenure that things really got bad, in my opinion. I think DB took the success under Hoke in year 1 as a mandate that he could do whatever he wanted with the Program and we had all better learn to like it... he'd drag us kicking and screaming to the promised land (though we'd all be lighter in the wallet because of it. )

Then things just didn't work out on the field, and as DB had tied himself so closely to the football team and the changes around it, he took most of the heat for what had gone wrong.

In the end, good riddance.

I don't think Hoke deserves all the vitriol getting heaped on him... he's just not good enough for the job, but he's done his best, and it just didn't work out.

 

[Michlady]

Clues about Brandon and R r relationship started to leak out with the first year
Second year was when athletics staff started getting Dave's way or the highway
And from there some disgruntled average fans and alumni started complaining

The hoke hire was questioned. Even I said while I know Brady had been a good recruiter want sure he was ready for this

Everyone's impatience have folks looking at guys after only three years somewhere which isn't enough time to develop a program, I really think you cannot determine a coach's success in three years but we are in this impatient world

 

[hungry]

I never said I wanted Rich Rod retained or back...

just confused at some of the crazy stuff I saw Hoke doing on saturday

standing there with his mouth hanging open and his arms hanging limply at his sides near the end of the half while his OC calls a time-out...

He brings absolutely no discipline to this team of his 120 sons and there are only about 5 guys on the roster with any heart. I guess there might be more, but they are buried on the bench for whatever reason.

 

[alonzomoseley]

Someday when all the emotion dies down, the dust settles, and history reviews this time period in Michigan football history, it will be noted...

that the fanbase of the University of Michigan ran Rich Rodriguez out of town, and that the University replaced him with Brady Hoke.

Not just the fan base. Maybe not even mostly the fan base.

 

[masterscorpio77]

I think the Booster's had a lot to do with Rich Rod's exit. They are the ones who donate money to the Michigan Sports program especially Football. So if they were not happy with him, well the best way to get the attention of the higher ups is to not Support the program.

Money talks.

 

[wlvrnstlr4life]

I think the reason RR was ran out of town was that he sucked balls. It sure was fun though scoring a shit load on the bad teams and barely scoring once the B1G season rolled around. Loved the special teams that couldnt kick a field goal and the defense that wound up 112th in the nation. Man, I miss those teams.

 

[Michchamp]

People seem to be forgetting the exact circumstances of RRs departure. the overwhelming majority of fans wanted him gone... Even the dumbasses who keep pointing out his record at AZ. We had just lost to Miss St. 52-14 in the Gator Bowl. Remember that? You guys remember that right? That vaunted offense that was "improving" had just put up a whopping 14 pts and 7 against ohio the week before. The last two games of richrods tenure we were out scored 89-21.

I don't remember ANYONE defending him at that point.

 

[hailhail]

I think the reason RR was ran out of town was that he sucked balls. It sure was fun though scoring a shit load on the bad teams and barely scoring once the B1G season rolled around. Loved the special teams that couldnt kick a field goal and the defense that wound up 112th in the nation. Man, I miss those teams.

Thank you. It's obvious neither of the last two coaches were/are cut out for the job here. Rich didn't do himself any favors by being an ass and alienating people. If you do that you have to win.

Maybe the biggest difference between now and RR's last year is the level of apathy. I don't think there was ever this much pessimism (or general disinterest, which is just as bad) when Rich Rod was here. But that's the result of failure over time, over multiple head coaches, and is probably equally attributable to both guys.

Best moment of the season by far? Brandon's firing. And that's sad to think about.

 

[Michlady]

I think the Booster's had a lot to do with Rich Rod's exit. They are the ones who donate money to the Michigan Sports program especially Football. So if they were not happy with him, well the best way to get the attention of the higher ups is to not Support the program.

Money talks.

Everyone is a booster and maybe some donors wanted him out
I think it was still more Dave who was anti rich for a while

I think there was just a split within various factions and it was probably 50-50

Rich had done some things that didn't endear himself for support but I still think it was no one group or,faction. A lot was Dave