My take on Josh Gordon

[inkfreq]

Ink, do you really think Welker and Gordon's suspensions are going to get lifted/reduced?

Welker's suspension falls under PEDs. And it's only four games.

I don't see the NFL voluntarily reducing a PED ban, and he can't argue that he can't gainful employment if it's only four.

Gordon on the other hand, has the argument that he can't obtain gainful employment. Yes, I know, he's working as a car salesman, but that is not going to pay his expenses, and can't be considered "gainful" under his living conditions.

Yes, I think the guy has a lawsuit.

As for the NFLPA argument, it's valid, except that union bargaining agreements may only provide a framework for the labor of laws in each state.

Ohio law still holds jurisdiction in this case, that I can absolutely guarantee you. I got out of IT for a while and was working with a labor negotiator for the newspaper unions in Detroit and Chicago.

100% for certain, Ohio law will apply to this case.

 

[inkfreq]

You have to understand how the NFL is set up. The players are not employed by the teams they are employed by the NFL. If they were employed by the teams and the CBA was negotiated separately with each team then they would be subject to state laws. But they arent. I think it has a lot to do with the special federal anti trust exemption that sports leagues like the NFL have. You could never come up with a CBA if it had to agree with every states laws. To many would contradict themselves.

Sorry wheels, but not correct.

This is why Congress gives pro sports teams a monopoly exemption. They need it because they are 32 independant businesses with 32 set of individual employees negotiating with a single union under a collective bargaining agreement.

I can promise you for fact the law views Josh Gordon as an employee of the Cleveland Browns, not the NFL.

I am definitely not wrong on this one. He has a case, and an amazingly good one too. The only thing holding him back is reinstatement.

If he loses, and a judge sides with the NFL anyway, Josh Gordon is suspended and needs to apply for reinstatement by the NFL. He has to be very cautious about losing and pissing off Goodell, who may not be willing to grant reinstatement after a year.

He could choose to impose conditions like the did with Incognito and Brent before reinstatement can be awarded.

Goodell could reasonably cost Gordon two years instead of one if Gordon loses this case. That's the only thing holding him back. Under law he should win.. but if he doesn't... he's pretty much out of football.

 

[Mitchrapp]

He can try no way he gets reduction. Still need a judge to go against the NFL and thats not happening. This is Goodell-land. And going from NFL to car salesman is gainful employment for the law. If it wasn't the law could say no games because even 8 games he's not making what his living says he should make.

 

[inkfreq]

He can try no way he gets reduction. Still need a judge to go against the NFL and thats not happening. This is Goodell-land. And going from NFL to car salesman is gainful employment for the law. If it wasn't the law could say no games because even 8 games he's not making what his living says he should make.

He has grounds to use gainful employment as irreparable harm because when he applied to play in the CFL, he was told no by the Browns.

They are denying him the ability to work in his profession.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Because the Browns still "own" him. He gets hurt and they get hurt.

It's why NFL contracts have all sorts of language..can't do this and can't do that.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

sue the nfl for a billion....don't ever play another snap of football. smoke a bunch of pot.

Charles Rogers missed the first part of your sentence.

 

[inkfreq]

Because the Browns still "own" him. He gets hurt and they get hurt.

It's why NFL contracts have all sorts of language..can't do this and can't do that.

Of course thats why, but its still denying him employment in his profession, which judges take seriously.

However, it's a moot point now, he's not suing.

Apparently however, the NFL and the NFLPA are working on lowering bans for some drugs and stiffening them for PEDs, and the NFLPA is saying they won't agree unless all suspensions that would fall under the rule for this season are reversed.

So if the NFL wants HGH testing, they may have to reverse the ban on Gordon anyway.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I don't see Goodell agreeing to that regardless that he wants HGH testing..

 

[tonyballs]

Welker's suspension falls under PEDs. And it's only four games.

I don't see the NFL voluntarily reducing a PED ban, and he can't argue that he can't gainful employment if it's only four.

Gordon on the other hand, has the argument that he can't obtain gainful employment. Yes, I know, he's working as a car salesman, but that is not going to pay his expenses, and can't be considered "gainful" under his living conditions.

Yes, I think the guy has a lawsuit.

As for the NFLPA argument, it's valid, except that union bargaining agreements may only provide a framework for the labor of laws in each state.

Ohio law still holds jurisdiction in this case, that I can absolutely guarantee you. I got out of IT for a while and was working with a labor negotiator for the newspaper unions in Detroit and Chicago.

100% for certain, Ohio law will apply to this case.

Thanks, bro!!

 

[inkfreq]

I don't see Goodell agreeing to that regardless that he wants HGH testing..

I admit, thats a hail mary by Demaurice Smith to say the least.

 

[wheels002]

Knowing employment law more than I really should you are way off base Ink. I get what your saying but your wrong. The CBA covers this kind of thing and if a state judge tried to even issue an injunction. the NFL would go over his head and get it tossed. A state judge has 0 authority over the NFl and the NFLPA. You can even go back to the lockout, A state judge got involved and that lasted a few days. The framework of the NFL, The language in the NFL contracts and the CBA make it impossible to win. He could try going to a state labor relations board but it wont work. His best bet is take it like a man. He did all this to himself.

 

[mhughes0021]

the part I do agree with Ink on is that if you suspend someone without pay you cant force them not to work and make a living for himself. That should be against the law at any level. You don't want him to go work somewhere else and get hurt?....don't suspend him. Lets be real here....hes suspended for a year for 3 main reasons: 1) he started his career in the program cause he was an idiot in college 2) the rules are dumb 3) He is dumb. NFLPA has taken my advice I gave them 2 days ago and are trying to change the rules. Ill say it again....if your taking action against people for smoking some pot....then you are against the culture of your entire league and good luck suspending 70% of the league. The NFLPA is weak for not doing anything about this prior to the new cba to support their players.

 

[wheels002]

the part I do agree with Ink on is that if you suspend someone without pay you cant force them not to work and make a living for himself. That should be against the law at any level. You don't want him to go work somewhere else and get hurt?....don't suspend him. Lets be real here....hes suspended for a year for 3 main reasons: 1) he started his career in the program cause he was an idiot in college 2) the rules are dumb 3) He is dumb. NFLPA has taken my advice I gave them 2 days ago and are trying to change the rules. Ill say it again....if your taking action against people for smoking some pot....then you are against the culture of your entire league and good luck suspending 70% of the league. The NFLPA is weak for not doing anything about this prior to the new cba to support their players.

They arent stopping him from working, If your talking about him not being allowed in the VFL that is a CFL rule and not anything to do with the NFL.

 

[mhughes0021]

They arent stopping him from working, If your talking about him not being allowed in the VFL that is a CFL rule and not anything to do with the NFL.

Someone earlier stated the Brown's stopped him from going to the cfl....i was going of that.

 

[wheels002]

Someone earlier stated the Brown's stopped him from going to the cfl....i was going of that.

No the CFL has a league rule that forbids any player under NFL suspension to play there. They made the rule after Ricky Williams and someone from the Bengals went up there to play. It has nothing to do with the NFL.

 

[inkfreq]

ESPN Cleveland's Tony Grossi believes there's a "better than 50 percent chance" of Josh Gordon playing this season.

The NFL and NFLPA are working on a new drug policy that could seek to reverse suspensions that occurred this year. It potentially allows for Gordon and Wes Welker to be reinstated or see their bans reduced. There's currently several sticking points between the sides, however, and retroactively applying changes is a small part of larger negotiations. Gordon should continue to be stashed in all leagues until the situation works itself out. The earliest a new policy will be finalized is Monday or Tuesday. Sep 6 - 6:39 PM

 

[inkfreq]

Well, they are saying this could be done by kickoff tonight, and that Gordon could be reduced to 8 games.

Hard to say at this point, it's changing all the time.

 

[michiganalex]

No the CFL has a league rule that forbids any player under NFL suspension to play there. They made the rule after Ricky Williams and someone from the Bengals went up there to play. It has nothing to do with the NFL.

so the CFL is honoring their NFL Counterpart?

 

[tomdalton22]

Glad I picked him up on Tuesday. He could be a game changer for me!

 

[inkfreq]

Glad I picked him up on Tuesday. He could be a game changer for me!

According to reports today, it's 10 games.

Oh well, stashing him for 10 games is probably going to pay off better than the bum I would have had taking that spot.