OT Yes, God does speak to me (and others)

[GoBlueInAtlanta]

Good morn...uh...afternoon. Man, the morning flew by.

Ok, yesterday I told you the $60 story. Let's ramp it way up and start with this one today.

I don?t usually watch television evangelists, but one particular day as I flipped through the channels, I landed on one of these fellows. Normally I?ll stay for a minute or two to hear what they?re saying and it doesn?t take long to hear error, so I move on. I had never seen this guy before and he knew what he was talking about so I thought I would stay for a while. As they always do, he eventually got around to asking for donations. This time it was different though because he wasn?t asking for himself, but rather that we donate to the TV station broadcasting his message. It is a good organization which sends workers to rebuild after storms, drills wells for people-groups without clean water, etc. I felt God say that I should call and pledge $1,000. We were doing okay financially, but I certainly couldn?t give $1,000. As I spoke with the representative I said that I felt that God impressed upon me to call and pledge $1,000, but I had absolutely no idea where the money would come from. I told her when God made it available to me I would send it to them.

At this time I was working as a loan officer for a mortgage broker. It had been several months since my pledge and I was working on a loan for a teacher who had moved into the area. There had been more than one problem trying to get the loan approved and by the time we got to the closing it was a relief to know that we finally had all of the problems resolved. As we waited for the final paperwork to be sent from the lender, we encountered a few more problems that had to be handled. Finally, we had everything squared away. Then I received a phone call from the lender who said that in all of the back and forth with the closing issues, they had made a mistake and they had under-estimated my commission (which NEVER happens with lenders). They said in addition to my origination fee they had miscalculated by exactly $1,000! Not $999.99 or $1000.01, exactly $1000.


My commission was always 1% of the amount borrowed, which never came to a nice, neat, round number and this time was no different. My origination fee was an odd number such as $1532.50 (1% of $153,250) + the mistake they had made of exactly $1000.

I?ll give you one guess where that $1,000 went.

?Coincidentally,? one month later I received a bump in pay at work that resulted in an extra $600 per month. Although this was the first time I saw a personal financial gain, I?ve found it?s always a good thing to follow God?s instructions.

 

[b311j]

I didnt read all these pages as it appears to have turned into a convo between GBIA and Rabid so I am not sure if the discussion touched on it or not. But I am curious on people thoughts. If god is all seeing and all knowing how and why do we have tragedies like Sandy Hook? Like the attacks of 9/11? Like the Tsunami of 2004?

 

[RABID]

... but couldn't come up with anything that didn't sound sycophantic ...

:shrug:

OH COME ON!
fergawdsakes

 

[Monster]

I didnt read all these pages as it appears to have turned into a convo between GBIA and Rabid so I am not sure if the discussion touched on it or not. But I am curious on people thoughts. If god is all seeing and all knowing how and why do we have tragedies like Sandy Hook? Like the attacks of 9/11? Like the Tsunami of 2004?

This should be simple for anyone to figure out...even Christians. It also goes for any other religion's god(s).

If God is all powerful and all knowing and chooses to do nothing, then he/she is not a kind god or just doesn't care.

Unrelated to what you said, if someone claims that everything happens for a reason or that God has a plan, then everything that happens at this moment is because of God. Free will is not free will, but rather the illusion of having a choice. Which would also mean that God sends people to Hell even before they are born. I mean, he did give us sin and then sent his only son to save us from sin and then sends sinners to hell. Wouldn't it be easier to not allow sin to exist in the first place?

I'm tired of the members only club. The most peaceful man on Earth (who isn't a Christian) will be going to Hell. Meanwhile, the man who was in prison for twenty years for raping a woman converts to Christianity, spends 20 more years with God and goes straight to Heaven. Legit.

Luckily, I don't believe in any of this mumbo jumbo. I find it hard to believe that so many religions exist if there is one true God.

Yes, I know I went OT on your question, but I wanted to. so yeah.

 

[GoBlueInAtlanta]

I didnt read all these pages as it appears to have turned into a convo between GBIA and Rabid so I am not sure if the discussion touched on it or not. But I am curious on people thoughts. If god is all seeing and all knowing how and why do we have tragedies like Sandy Hook? Like the attacks of 9/11? Like the Tsunami of 2004?

Good question. The short answer is a combination of: individuals making free will decisions and this being a fallen world.

If you'd like I can get to the bottom line. This conversation always ends with me asking, "How and when do you want God to intervene?" Should He stop ALL "bad things" from happening? Who decides where the line is between good and bad? Should He stop you from doing what you want to do if it were deemed bad by whomever was designated as the Decider? It's obvious from scripture that abortions are against His will. Should He step in today and stop all abortions? The questions could go on for quite a while, but I'm sure you see where it is headed.

 

[GoBlueInAtlanta]

:shrug:

OH COME ON!
fergawdsakes

I had the brown-noser definition in mind when I wrote it.

 

[Monster]

Ok, here's a time when God spoke through me:

Many years ago we attended a church that would ?auction off? the teenagers. The way it worked was if you had the winning bid for a particular teenager, they would come to your house and do yard work or clean the house or some such work. (Hold your tongue, Tinsel, I know where your mind is going) The youth group would then use the money to pay for camp.

One Sunday evening as the auction began, it became very apparent that one of the young men had a special plan for one of the young ladies. This particular young lady was very pretty and he had decided to use all the money that he had saved up to ?purchase her? so he could spend time with her. It was also apparent that this young lady did NOT want to be purchased by him. Most of the bids had reached the $20 to $25 range, but as the bidding rose for this young lady, $30, then $35, she became even more nervous because he showed no sign of slowing down. It seemed that the determined young man had more money than any of the other bids had reached. I watched in amusement as it climbed to $45, then $50.

I should explain at this time that thanks to the rollercoaster automobile economy in Michigan, both my wife and I were unemployed and had very little money coming into the house, so we were sitting back enjoying the proceedings and feeling no pressure to participate. The young man bid $55! with a triumphant look on its face as he surveyed the room and no one moved.

What happened next floored me.

I didn?t move my arm, but somehow my hand was in the air.

I didn?t say a word, but somehow $60! came from my mouth.

(I still can not to this day put into adequate words what it was like. I am not an impetuous person at all, so, again this was uncharacteristic of my natural personality. Plus, I?m cheap, too! I wouldn't have bid $60 even if we both had been working.)

My wife and I looked at each other simultaneously. I can still see the disbelief in her eyes, and I said, ?I don?t know why I did that.?

Unfortunately, the young man had only $55 and he could go no higher. I frantically looked around to see if anyone else would bid $65 so I would be off the hook. No other bids were forthcoming and the young lady gave me a THANK YOU look of relief as I won the bidding.

I tried to explain to my wife later that evening that it wasn?t me that raised my hand, nor had I said $60, even though I had indeed done it. Being a man of my word I fully intended on paying the $60 to the youth group, though I had no idea where I was going to get the money.






Within days we received a letter from our health insurance company stating that they had over-billed us and were including a check for the amount over-billed. I?ll give you one guess how much the check was for?

you guessed it, the check was for exactly $60.00. Not $55, or $65, or $59.99, or $60.01. It was exactly $60. I signed the check over to our church and placed it into the basket the next Sunday.

(Sometimes I think the most amazing part of this story is that an insurance company voluntarily returned money!)

Hmmm...interesting. A church group auctioned off teenagers. One of the girls knew that a certain man had bad intentions for her. It seemed that you knew and so did the rest of the bidders...yet, you still let him bid?

Okay, I'll grant you that the $60 thing is a little weird. I've had my own experience with this and it was after I became an atheist.

Before I knew anything about atheists or atheism in general, I was struggling a bit with money. Lost my really good paying job and was behind on bills. I was stressed out all day and when I fell asleep, I dreamed about bill mahr - a man that i didn't know much about. All I knew is that he had a reputation as being extremely rude.

He came to me and gave me a briefcase full of money and said, "Sometimes, nice guys need breaks. Here's yours." I opened it up and saw that it was the exact amount of money we needed to pay off the bills for that month.

The next day, I walked out to get the mail and found something from the IRS. Perfect. another bill. Fortunately, it was a refund for an amount I had overpaid from a few years back. When does the IRS ever do this? It was a first for me. The amount was just enough to pay off the bills and take my wife out for a dinner a couple days later.

Even better, during dinner, I met my old boss from years before. I told him about my unemployment and he hired me on the spot.

So...either your God is in the habit of helping atheists without praying or it's just another act of coincidence.

THE OTHER OPTION....BILL MAHR....IS GOD!

 

[Monster]

Oh and i hope that auction money went to charity and not the church.

 

[GoBlueInAtlanta]

This should be simple for anyone to figure out...even Christians. It also goes for any other religion's god(s).

1. If God is all powerful and all knowing and chooses to do nothing, then he/she is not a kind god or just doesn't care.

2. Unrelated to what you said, if someone claims that everything happens for a reason or that God has a plan, then everything that happens at this moment is because of God. Free will is not free will, but rather the illusion of having a choice. Which would also mean that God sends people to Hell even before they are born. I mean, he did give us sin and then sent his only son to save us from sin and then sends sinners to hell. Wouldn't it be easier to not allow sin to exist in the first place?

I'm tired of the members only club. The most peaceful man on Earth (who isn't a Christian) will be going to Hell. Meanwhile, the man who was in prison for twenty years for raping a woman converts to Christianity, spends 20 more years with God and goes straight to Heaven. Legit.

Luckily, I don't believe in any of this mumbo jumbo. I find it hard to believe that so many religions exist if there is one true God.

Yes, I know I went OT on your question, but I wanted to. so yeah.

I numbered the two questions so I can match up my answer.

1. Or, third option, He truly has given us free will. (See my response above about when He should intervene.)

2. God has a plan. Man does not stick to it. Eventually it will turn out as He planned, but man takes us down some wrong turns on the way to getting there.

 

[Monster]

Good question. The short answer is a combination of: individuals making free will decisions and this being a fallen world.

If you'd like I can get to the bottom line. This conversation always ends with me asking, "How and when do you want God to intervene?" Should He stop ALL "bad things" from happening? Who decides where the line is between good and bad? Should He stop you from doing what you want to do if it were deemed bad by whomever was designated as the Decider? It's obvious from scripture that abortions are against His will. Should He step in today and stop all abortions? The questions could go on for quite a while, but I'm sure you see where it is headed.

Who decides what is good and bad? Wouldn't that be God? Oh wait...I understand now.

In the bible...God condones slavery, killing of men and women for dozens of ridiculous reasons, including eating shellfish and working on the sabbath. Orders the deaths of infants (born and still in the womb), kills entire villages with all of the animals as well. He's created a flood that destroyed the whole world. He's helped kings rise and fall.

Yes, i Understand now. God doesn't step in to do anything because he's just as evil as Satan...worse, even.

 

[Monster]

I numbered the two questions so I can match up my answer.

1. Or, third option, He truly has given us free will. (See my response above about when He should intervene.)

2. God has a plan. Man does not stick to it. Eventually it will turn out as He planned, but man takes us down some wrong turns on the way to getting there.

1. If God has given us free will, there is no plan.

2. Again, If God has a plan, there can be no plan. God is infallible. You know that. He can never be wrong. He's a perfect being. So changing his mind about something is not possible. He is infallible and would never need to change his mind.

 

[RABID]

I had the brown-noser definition in mind when I wrote it.

I remembered it from a logic class years ago (Socrates section) as soon as I looked it up, but the image I posted popped up too and I couldn't resist.

 

[byco42]

I didnt read all these pages as it appears to have turned into a convo between GBIA and Rabid so I am not sure if the discussion touched on it or not. But I am curious on people thoughts. If god is all seeing and all knowing how and why do we have tragedies like Sandy Hook? Like the attacks of 9/11? Like the Tsunami of 2004?

Ultimately, we are not of this kingdom. That's the reason why things like that happen here on a weekly basis. Don't forget about the ongoing suffering that we afflict on each other, too. God "allows" nothing to happen. We are free to do anything we want to do. No constraints of any kind, save for our sense of right and wrong. The cataclysmic and catastrophic as well as the annoying and inconveniencing.

There is a direct relationship between the magnitude and frequency of events like this and our connection and relationship with God. The further we stray from Him, the more of a crisis that our culture experiences. If we obeyed God as he wishes us to do, would we see these circumstances? No.

 

[GoBlueInAtlanta]

Hmmm...interesting. A church group auctioned off teenagers. One of the girls knew that a certain man had bad intentions for her. It seemed that you knew and so did the rest of the bidders...yet, you still let him bid?

Okay, I'll grant you that the $60 thing is a little weird. I've had my own experience with this and it was after I became an atheist.

Before I knew anything about atheists or atheism in general, I was struggling a bit with money. Lost my really good paying job and was behind on bills. I was stressed out all day and when I fell asleep, I dreamed about bill mahr - a man that i didn't know much about. All I knew is that he had a reputation as being extremely rude.

He came to me and gave me a briefcase full of money and said, "Sometimes, nice guys need breaks. Here's yours." I opened it up and saw that it was the exact amount of money we needed to pay off the bills for that month.

The next day, I walked out to get the mail and found something from the IRS. Perfect. another bill. Fortunately, it was a refund for an amount I had overpaid from a few years back. When does the IRS ever do this? It was a first for me. The amount was just enough to pay off the bills and take my wife out for a dinner a couple days later.

Even better, during dinner, I met my old boss from years before. I told him about my unemployment and he hired me on the spot.

So...either your God is in the habit of helping atheists without praying or it's just another act of coincidence.

THE OTHER OPTION....BILL MAHR....IS GOD!

I said it was a young man (should have said, teenager) who wanted to spend time with her. He was her age and wanted a date. There was nothing nefarious AT ALL! Simply a young man showing his affection for a pretty girl.

As I said, coincidences do happen and they happen to me as well. You have listed one story, others have each listed one story and each story has had one coincidence. I have now listed 4 or 5 stories (haven't kept track) that have multiple "coincidental factors" of time, money, place, etc that are well above the reasonable mathematical probabilities.

 

[redandguilty]

1. If God has given us free will, there is no plan.

2. Again, If God has a plan, there can be no plan. God is infallible. You know that. He can never be wrong. He's a perfect being. So changing his mind about something is not possible. He is infallible and would never need to change his mind.

If free will prevents God from having plans, it prevents us all from having plans.

 

[Monster]

Here's the one thing I know for 100% fact that can never be disproven.


I am a good person without God. I have morals and I stick to them. I do not need a reward to do these things. I do not need a threat of eternal suffering. I do these things because they are right. Ask yourself if all of your Christians would stick with the church if there was no consequences for their actions.

I'm not a perfect person. I curse. I lust. And I have a few moments of insanity every once in a while. Overall though, I'd say that I could compete with just about any Christian in terms of "goodness".

If I die and can't get into Heaven...then we have a problem.

 

[GoBlueInAtlanta]

Oh and i hope that auction money went to charity and not the church.

The church is a charity. I would not attend a church that doesn't help the poor, sick, and needy of the community.

I mentioned in the story that the money was used for youth camp.

 

[redandguilty]

I didnt read all these pages as it appears to have turned into a convo between GBIA and Rabid so I am not sure if the discussion touched on it or not. But I am curious on people thoughts. If god is all seeing and all knowing how and why do we have tragedies like Sandy Hook? Like the attacks of 9/11? Like the Tsunami of 2004?

We're in the 7th day. He is resting.

 

[GoBlueInAtlanta]

Who decides what is good and bad? Wouldn't that be God? Oh wait...I understand now.

In the bible...God condones slavery, killing of men and women for dozens of ridiculous reasons, including eating shellfish and working on the sabbath. Orders the deaths of infants (born and still in the womb), kills entire villages with all of the animals as well. He's created a flood that destroyed the whole world. He's helped kings rise and fall.

Yes, i Understand now. God doesn't step in to do anything because he's just as evil as Satan...worse, even.

I asked him when God should step in. I was giving the power to him (or another human being) to determine when it would be right for them to tell God to intervene. That is what I was referring to with the Decider comment.

 

[Monster]

If free will prevents God from having plans, it prevents us all from having plans.

Seriously. Please think about what you just said.

Free will would prevent us from having plans? You sure about that?


All I mean is that if God is infallible (as is preached to us) then his plan must also be infallible and unchanging. That is common sense. If his plan is unchanging, then we can not have free will.

If we have free will, we are free to do as we please. But, there is no free will if everything happens according to God's plan.