OT Yes, God does speak to me (and others)

[Monster]

The church is a charity. I would not attend a church that doesn't help the poor, sick, and needy of the community.

I mentioned in the story that the money was used for youth camp.

Ahh, yes. sorry. Got caught up in my own thoughts and skipped over it.

 

[redandguilty]

Here's the one thing I know for 100% fact that can never be disproven.


I am a good person without God. I have morals and I stick to them. I do not need a reward to do these things. I do not need a threat of eternal suffering. I do these things because they are right. Ask yourself if all of your Christians would stick with the church if there was no consequences for their actions.

I'm not a perfect person. I curse. I lust. And I have a few moments of insanity every once in a while. Overall though, I'd say that I could compete with just about any Christian in terms of "goodness".

If I die and can't get into Heaven...then we have a problem.

Implied by your 'fact' is 100% certainty that there is no God.

 

[redandguilty]

Seriously. Please think about what you just said.

Free will would prevent us from having plans? You sure about that?


All I mean is that if God is infallible (as is preached to us) then his plan must also be infallible and unchanging. That is common sense. If his plan is unchanging, then we can not have free will.

If we have free will, we are free to do as we please. But, there is no free will if everything happens according to God's plan.

Yeah, I'm sure. Check the qualifier. Your free will doesn't prevent me from having plans, so why would it prevent God?

 

[Monster]

I said it was a young man (should have said, teenager) who wanted to spend time with her. He was her age and wanted a date. There was nothing nefarious AT ALL! Simply a young man showing his affection for a pretty girl.

As I said, coincidences do happen and they happen to me as well. You have listed one story, others have each listed one story and each story has had one coincidence. I have now listed 4 or 5 stories (haven't kept track) that have multiple "coincidental factors" of time, money, place, etc that are well above the reasonable mathematical probabilities.

I've listed about three and i have a lot more. Life is full of coincidences.

 

[GoBlueInAtlanta]

1. If God has given us free will, there is no plan.

2. Again, If God has a plan, there can be no plan. God is infallible. You know that. He can never be wrong. He's a perfect being. So changing his mind about something is not possible. He is infallible and would never need to change his mind.

Sure there is.

Back to the family analogy. When you were growing up, mom and dad had a plan. You were forced to go with the plan until you reached the age of 18 upon which you could decide to stick with the plan or strike out on your own. Same with God. I choose to stick with His plan, you choose to strike out on your own.

 

[Monster]

Yeah, I'm sure. Check the qualifier. Your free will doesn't prevent me from having plans, so why would it prevent God?

God is infallible. What is so hard to understand about that? He is a perfect being. Anything he does is perfect. His plans would be perfect. So if you say, "This is according to God's plan" or something along that lines, you're implying that we have no free will. If God has no plan, it gives us free will to do as we please.

I understand that you have a deep faith, but you are a very intelligent person, red. Someone that I have a great amount of respect for on this board. Don't let your faith get in the way of this logic. You're better than that.

 

[Monster]

Sure there is.

Back to the family analogy. When you were growing up, mom and dad had a plan. You were forced to go with the plan until you reached the age of 18 upon which you could decide to stick with the plan or strike out on your own. Same with God. I choose to stick with His plan, you choose to strike out on your own.

My parents weren't perfect people. Their plans were for me to go to college, become a lawyer, and never have a problem with money. None of that has happened, because they are not perfect. Therefore, their plan is not perfect and has a chance of failure.

God is infallible. Therefore his plan must be infallible. What he plans for me must come to pass or he is not infallible.

Not a difficult concept.

 

[GoBlueInAtlanta]

Here's the one thing I know for 100% fact that can never be disproven.


I am a good person without God. I have morals and I stick to them. I do not need a reward to do these things. I do not need a threat of eternal suffering. I do these things because they are right. Ask yourself if all of your Christians would stick with the church if there was no consequences for their actions.

I'm not a perfect person. I curse. I lust. And I have a few moments of insanity every once in a while. Overall though, I'd say that I could compete with just about any Christian in terms of "goodness".

If I die and can't get into Heaven...then we have a problem.

I believe that description fits me pretty well, too. But, again, "goodness" is not the issue and I must apologize for Christians who are more worried about sin management than having a trusting relationship with God. "Do this, don't do that" so you are good, is infantile to having a loving, trusting relationship with God which in turn compels us by love to do the right things.

Here's an analogy I heard the other day about cattle ranching which can be applied to having a great relationship with God and to raising kids as well. Don't throw up the tallest fence you can in order to keep the cattle (yourself, kids) in line. Dig a deeper well so their needs are met at home by you.

As I laid out previously, it was the human race which separated itself from God. God gave a way back. He is not using hell as a deterrent, it is the place we are headed by our own choice. He is giving us the option to decide to not go there.

 

[redandguilty]

God is infallible. What is so hard to understand about that? He is a perfect being. Anything he does is perfect. His plans would be perfect. So if you say, "This is according to God's plan" or something along that lines, you're implying that we have no free will. If God has no plan, it gives us free will to do as we please.

I understand that you have a deep faith, but you are a very intelligent person, red. Someone that I have a great amount of respect for on this board. Don't let your faith get in the way of this logic. You're better than that.

I don't say that everything goes according to God's plans though. I agree that that would be incompatible with free will. I believe in free will, therefore , I believe God allows things to stray from His plan. To what degree, I don't know.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Here's an analogy I heard the other day about cattle ranching which can be applied to having a great relationship with God and to raising kids as well. Don't throw up the tallest fence you can in order to keep the cattle (yourself, kids) in line. Dig a deeper well so their needs are met at home by you.

No offense GBkiA, but Jesus told these little stories a lot better than you do.

Or, at least he did if he told them the way the people who chronicled the things reported that he did.

 

[redandguilty]

My parents weren't perfect people. Their plans were for me to go to college, become a lawyer, and never have a problem with money. None of that has happened, because they are not perfect. Therefore, their plan is not perfect and has a chance of failure.

God is infallible. Therefore his plan must be infallible. What he plans for me must come to pass or he is not infallible.

Not a difficult concept.

I make plans all the time where I don't know the outcome. It's a part of science. I don't consider it a flaw in my plans.

 

[GoBlueInAtlanta]

My parents weren't perfect people. Their plans were for me to go to college, become a lawyer, and never have a problem with money. None of that has happened, because they are not perfect. Therefore, their plan is not perfect and has a chance of failure.

God is infallible. Therefore his plan must be infallible. What he plans for me must come to pass or he is not infallible.

Not a difficult concept.

Not a difficult concept at all. His plan for you is infallible. Do you accept His plan for you or do you reject it? That is the answer.

 

[GoBlueInAtlanta]

No offense GBkiA, but Jesus told these little stories a lot better than you do.

Or, at least he did if he told them the way the people who chronicled the things reported that he did.

I readily accept that!

 

[Monster]

Okay, guys. I'm really busy today, so I'll stop the back and forth that involves me.

Thank you for nobody taking any of this talk personally. Atheists and Creationists have a tendency to fly off the handle at each other during these debates. I think it demonstrates that we have a good little group going on here. We can debate and even if it gets a little heated, nobody loses their mind.

 

[redandguilty]

Okay, guys. I'm really busy today, so I'll stop the back and forth that involves me.

Thank you for nobody taking any of this talk personally. Atheists and Creationists have a tendency to fly off the handle at each other during these debates. I think it demonstrates that we have a good little group going on here. We can debate and even if it gets a little heated, nobody loses their mind.

Yup. Good crew. I'm losing my mind a little over that Gibbons thread, but that's not anyone's fault here.

 

[GoBlueInAtlanta]

Okay, guys. I'm really busy today, so I'll stop the back and forth that involves me.

Thank you for nobody taking any of this talk personally. Atheists and Creationists have a tendency to fly off the handle at each other during these debates. I think it demonstrates that we have a good little group going on here. We can debate and even if it gets a little heated, nobody loses their mind.

Kudos to you as well.

 

[b311j]

Good question. The short answer is a combination of: individuals making free will decisions and this being a fallen world.

If you'd like I can get to the bottom line. This conversation always ends with me asking, "How and when do you want God to intervene?" Should He stop ALL "bad things" from happening? Who decides where the line is between good and bad? Should He stop you from doing what you want to do if it were deemed bad by whomever was designated as the Decider? It's obvious from scripture that abortions are against His will. Should He step in today and stop all abortions? The questions could go on for quite a while, but I'm sure you see where it is headed.

Who does decide? Who does decide what is "bad" and what is "good"? If bad and good are up for interpretation then how can there be sin? Are the 10 Commandments the end all be? If god handed down these "rules" for Moses to give us, then to answer your question shouldn't god step in when they are going to be broken? Maybe the whole "thou shalt not kill" could have kicked in before things like having 20 children murdered at Sandy Hook happen.

I think the only true "bottom line" to this thread is that we all are different in our beliefs and "non-beliefs"

 

[GoBlueInAtlanta]

Who does decide? Who does decide what is "bad" and what is "good"? If bad and good are up for interpretation then how can there be sin? Are the 10 Commandments the end all be? If god handed down these "rules" for Moses to give us, then to answer your question shouldn't god step in when they are going to be broken? Maybe the whole "thou shalt not kill" could have kicked in before things like having 20 children murdered at Sandy Hook happen.

I think the only true "bottom line" to this thread is that we all are different in our beliefs and "non-beliefs"

Good questions all. I have to leave in two minutes, but I promise I will answer this evening.

 

[RABID]

... Are the 10 Commandments the end all be? ...

We also need to know what the other 5 commandments were.
The third stone tablet.

 

[b311j]

We also need to know what the other 5 commandments were.
The third stone tablet.

HAHAHA! I was thinking about posting that but thought it would be a tad inappropriate. Nice to know I'm not the only warped one here.