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OT Yes, God does speak to me (and others)

EGAD MAN! That... That is sacrilege!
I was talking about:

Exodus 32 NIV V.19

When Moses approached the camp and saw the golden calf and the dancing, his anger burned and he threw the three stone tablets out of his hands, breaking one of them to pieces at the foot of the mountain. And he took the calf they had made and burned it in the fire; then he ground it to powder, scattered it on the water and made the Israelites drink of it.
 
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RABID said:
EGAD MAN! That... That is sacrilege!
I was talking about:

Exodus 32 NIV V.19

When Moses approached the camp and saw the golden calf and the dancing, his anger burned and he threw the three stone tablets out of his hands, breaking one of them to pieces at the foot of the mountain. And he took the calf they had made and burned it in the fire; then he ground it to powder, scattered it on the water and made the Israelites drink of it.
Click to expand...

Oh....well then.....nevermind.
 
Monster said:
Here's the one thing I know for 100% fact that can never be disproven.


I am a good person without God. I have morals and I stick to them. I do not need a reward to do these things. I do not need a threat of eternal suffering. I do these things because they are right. Ask yourself if all of your Christians would stick with the church if there was no consequences for their actions.

I'm not a perfect person. I curse. I lust. And I have a few moments of insanity every once in a while. Overall though, I'd say that I could compete with just about any Christian in terms of "goodness".

If I die and can't get into Heaven...then we have a problem.
Click to expand...

You might consider the possibility that the existence of good and evil effectively promotes the idea that God exists. Being Catholic, I am not satisfied with my state of goodness. There is ever room and opportunity to improve. My desire to obey God is not fear-based, though a wise person should fear God. Eternal suffering is not a threat, it is a consequence of rejecting God.

Hell?s principal punishment consists of eternal separation from God in whom alone man can have the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.​
source: http://www.usccb.org/

I embrace the Church to experience God in the way He has asked me to: on His terms and not my own. He created me out of love in order to love Him and know Him. The richness of the experience is immeasurable, and I am barely in the nascent stages of it.
 
b311j said:
Oh....well then.....nevermind.
Click to expand...

Okay. I was talking about History of the world. Only because it is fucking HILARIOUS!

But seriously, what about the other 603 commandments?
(here are 52, there is no set order)
A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)
613.gif


G-d

  1. To know that G-d exists (Ex. 20:2; Deut. 5:6) (CCA1). See What Do Jews Believe?.
  2. Not to entertain the idea that there is any god but the Eternal (Ex. 20:3) (CCN8). See What Do Jews Believe?.
  3. Not to blaspheme (Ex. 22:27; in Christian texts, Ex. 22:28), the penalty for which is death (Lev. 24:16) (negative).
  4. To hallow G-d's name (Lev. 22:32) (CCA5). See The Name of G-d.
  5. Not to profane G-d's name (Lev . 22:32) (CCN155). See The Name of G-d.
  6. To know that G-d is One, a complete Unity (Deut. 6:4) (CCA2). See What Do Jews Believe?.
  7. To love G-d (Deut. 6:5) (CCA3). See What Do Jews Believe?.
  8. To fear Him reverently (Deut. 6:13; 10:20) (CCA4).
  9. Not to put the word of G-d to the test (Deut. 6:16) (negative).
  10. To imitate His good and upright ways (Deut. 28:9) (CCA6).
Torah

  1. To honor the old and the wise (Lev. 19:32) (CCA17).
  2. To learn Torah and to teach it (Deut. 6:7) (CCA14). See Torah.
  3. To cleave to those who know Him (Deut. 10:20) (the Talmud states that cleaving to scholars is equivalent to cleaving to Him) (CCA16).
  4. Not to add to the commandments of the Torah, whether in the Written Law or in its interpretation received by tradition (Deut. 13:1) (CCN159). See Torah.
  5. Not to take away from the commandments of the Torah (Deut. 13:1) (CCN160). See Torah.
  6. That every person shall write a scroll of the Torah for himself (Deut. 31:19) (CCA15). See Torah.
Signs and Symbols

  1. To circumcise the male offspring (Gen. 17:12; Lev. 12:3) (CCA47) See Brit Milah: Circumcision.
  2. To put tzitzit on the corners of clothing (Num. 15:38) (CCA10). See Tzitzit and Tallit.
  3. To bind tefillin on the head (Deut. 6:8) (CCA9). See Tefillin.
  4. To bind tefillin on the arm (Deut. 6:8) (CCA8). See Tefillin.
  5. To affix the mezuzah to the doorposts and gates of your house (Deut. 6:9) (CCA12). See Mezuzah.
Prayer and Blessings

  1. To pray to G-d (Ex. 23:25; Deut. 6:13) (according to the Talmud, the word "serve" in these verses refers to prayer) (CCA7). See Prayers and Blessings; Jewish Liturgy.
  2. To read the Shema in the morning and at night (Deut. 6:7) (CCA11). See Jewish Liturgy.
  3. To recite grace after meals (Deut. 8:10) (CCA13). See Birkat Ha-Mazon: Grace After Meals
  4. Not to lay down a stone for worship (Lev. 26:1) (CCN161).
Love and Brotherhood

  1. To love all human beings who are of the covenant (Lev. 19:18) (CCA60). See Love and Brotherhood.
  2. Not to stand by idly when a human life is in danger (Lev. 19:16) (CCN82). See Love and Brotherhood.
  3. Not to wrong any one in speech (Lev. 25:17) (CCN48). See Speech and Lashon Ha-Ra.
  4. Not to carry tales (Lev. 19:16) (CCN77). See Speech and Lashon Ha-Ra.
  5. Not to cherish hatred in one's heart (Lev. 19:17) (CCN78). See Love and Brotherhood.
  6. Not to take revenge (Lev. 19:18) (CCN80).
  7. Not to bear a grudge (Lev. 19:18) (CCN81).
  8. Not to put any Jew to shame (Lev. 19:17) (CCN79).
  9. Not to curse any other Israelite (Lev. 19:14) (by implication: if you may not curse those who cannot hear, you certainly may not curse those who can) (CCN45).
  10. Not to give occasion to the simple-minded to stumble on the road (Lev. 19:14) (this includes doing anything that will cause another to sin) (CCN76).
  11. To rebuke the sinner (Lev. 19:17) (CCA72).
  12. To relieve a neighbor of his burden and help to unload his beast (Ex. 23:5) (CCA70). See Love and Brotherhood.
  13. To assist in replacing the load upon a neighbor's beast (Deut. 22:4) (CCA71). See Love and Brotherhood.
  14. Not to leave a beast, that has fallen down beneath its burden, unaided (Deut. 22:4) (CCN183). See Love and Brotherhood.
The Poor and Unfortunate

  1. Not to afflict an orphan or a widow (Ex. 22:21) (CCN51).
  2. Not to reap the entire field (Lev. 19:9; Lev. 23:22) (negative) (CCI6).
  3. To leave the unreaped corner of the field or orchard for the poor (Lev. 19:9) (affirmative) (CCI1).
  4. Not to gather gleanings (the ears that have fallen to the ground while reaping) (Lev. 19:9) (negative) (CCI7).
  5. To leave the gleanings for the poor (Lev. 19:9) (affirmative) (CCI2).
  6. Not to gather ol'loth (the imperfect clusters) of the vineyard (Lev. 19:10) (negative) (CCI8).
  7. To leave ol'loth (the imperfect clusters) of the vineyard for the poor (Lev. 19:10; Deut. 24:21) (affirmative) (CCI3).
  8. Not to gather the peret (grapes) that have fallen to the ground (Lev. 19:10) (negative) (CCI9).
  9. To leave peret (the single grapes) of the vineyard for the poor (Lev. 19:10) (affirmative) (CCI4).
  10. Not to return to take a forgotten sheaf (Deut. 24:19) This applies to all fruit trees (Deut. 24:20) (negative) (CC10).
  11. To leave the forgotten sheaves for the poor (Deut. 24:19-20) (affirmative) (CCI5).
  12. Not to refrain from maintaining a poor man and giving him what he needs (Deut. 15:7) (CCN62). See Tzedakah: Charity.
  13. To give charity according to one's means (Deut. 15:11) (CCA38). See Tzedakah: Charity.
 
RABID said:
EGAD MAN! That... That is sacrilege!
I was talking about:

Exodus 32 NIV V.19

When Moses approached the camp and saw the golden calf and the dancing, his anger burned and he threw the three stone tablets out of his hands, breaking one of them to pieces at the foot of the mountain. And he took the calf they had made and burned it in the fire; then he ground it to powder, scattered it on the water and made the Israelites drink of it.
Click to expand...

The third tablet was really the same Ten Commandments as are on the other two tablets; just with smaller print.

God re-printed them in larger print on the two tablets because there were just a lot of old Jews who had been wandering around in the desert out there for 40 years whose reading vision had gotten pretty bad; and it was a long way to the nearest CVS Pharmacy to buy pair of readers.

So Moses broke the one with the smaller print; Mel Brooks just said thing about 15 Commandments as a joke.
 
b311j said:
Who does decide? Who does decide what is "bad" and what is "good"? If bad and good are up for interpretation then how can there be sin? Are the 10 Commandments the end all be? If god handed down these "rules" for Moses to give us, then to answer your question shouldn't god step in when they are going to be broken? Maybe the whole "thou shalt not kill" could have kicked in before things like having 20 children murdered at Sandy Hook happen.

I think the only true "bottom line" to this thread is that we all are different in our beliefs and "non-beliefs"
Click to expand...

Who does decide? Who does decide what is "bad" and what is "good"? In reality it is God who makes that decision. In my earlier response to you I was asking - if it were up to you or any other human (the Decider) where would the line be drawn between good and bad? My point being that no two people would agree on where that line should be. God knows where that line is but due to His promise to mankind to allow them the freedom to decide for themselves, He will not force anyone to obey Him.​
​
If bad and good are up for interpretation then how can there be sin? The only place it is up for interpretation or debate is with us. We try to say ?this is good? or ?that is bad,? but we each do it with our own sense of right and wrong which is different from the next guy or gal.​
​
Are the 10 Commandments the end all be? The Ten Commandments encapsulate the whole of man?s efforts, meaning everything we do flows under them and they set guidelines which help us understand right and wrong. The Law was never given to save us from sin, it was given to make us aware of it. Just as a road sign which says 45 MPH makes us aware that we are breaking the law if we exceed it, the commandments bring to light the deeds that are sinful. Now, that being said, keeping the law does not fix the separation we are inherently born into as humans, it can only point out the separation that is there.​
​
If god handed down these "rules" for Moses to give us, then to answer your question shouldn't god step in when they are going to be broken? God gave the commandments to Moses to administer to His chosen people the Jews (later we Gentiles would be grafted into God?s family and that only by choice). This may be the first time you?ve heard this, but He did not give them to everyone as commandments. Of course, there are absolutely major benefits for everyone to apply the principles to their lives, but the Ten Commandments were commandments to His people. The vast majority of the Bible is written to His children and we are to read it and understand what He is telling us. Those who choose not to join His family are not bound by it.​
​
Maybe the whole "thou shalt not kill" could have kicked in before things like having 20 children murdered at Sandy Hook happen. We are back to the subject of who decides when God should step in? To you and I it would be obvious to say He should have stepped in in that case. But then someone rightfully points out a shooting with 5 people who died, then 1 person who died, then a woman who was raped and killed, then a baby that was aborted, <^> then a woman who was raped but lived, then a child that was beaten, then a ?​
​
​
<^> Let?s say you decide to draw the line here because the next person didn?t die. That woman who was raped would call out for justice wouldn?t she? So you move the line. Then the parents of the beaten child would call for justice. Do you keep moving the line until no one is left feeling that they were denied justice? What happens when you get to someone whose life has been torn apart by the lies of another? Do you move the line of intervention to the other side of that?​
​
You have just been put into God?s position. Either you step in and stop ALL injustice or, as is His case, you keep your promise to let man decide for Himself.​
 
byco42 said:
You might consider the possibility that the existence of good and evil effectively promotes the idea that God exists. Being Catholic, I am not satisfied with my state of goodness. There is ever room and opportunity to improve. My desire to obey God is not fear-based, though a wise person should fear God. Eternal suffering is not a threat, it is a consequence of rejecting God.
Hell?s principal punishment consists of eternal separation from God in whom alone man can have the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.​
source: http://www.usccb.org/

I embrace the Church to experience God in the way He has asked me to: on His terms and not my own. He created me out of love in order to love Him and know Him. The richness of the experience is immeasurable, and I am barely in the nascent stages of it.
Click to expand...

+1 for "nascent."
 
RABID said:
But seriously, what about the other 603 commandments?
Click to expand...

Those were all given to the Jews as well, not to tell them that if they obeyed them all they would "go to heaven." They were given to show them that we as humans are not capable of keeping all of the laws and that there is a need for Someone who CAN keep them all to come and take our place when His justice demands payment. He can not deny His justice, but He can offer a way to pay it through His Son Jesus so we don't have to.
 
tinselwolverine said:
The third tablet was really the same Ten Commandments as are on the other two tablets; just with smaller print.

God re-printed them in larger print on the two tablets because there were just a lot of old Jews who had been wandering around in the desert out there for 40 years whose reading vision had gotten pretty bad; and it was a long way to the nearest CVS Pharmacy to buy pair of readers.

So Moses broke the one with the smaller print; Mel Brooks just said thing about 15 Commandments as a joke.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the levity.
 
GoBlueInAtlanta said:
Those were all given to the Jews as well, not to tell them that if they obeyed them all they would "go to heaven." They were given to show them that we as humans are not capable of keeping all of the laws and that there is a need for Someone who CAN keep them all to come and take our place when His justice demands payment. He can not deny His justice, but He can offer a way to pay it through His Son Jesus so we don't have to.
Click to expand...

So God has given us impossible standards and set us up to fail?
That's a crock of shit!
 
byco42 said:
Not exactly.
Click to expand...

??

Were the 613 Mitzvot meant only for the Jews? I'm not POSITIVE, but I'm thinking there was not much fragmentation between Jews and Christians back then. Before Jesus and all.

Unless the Christians decided to pick 10 of the commandments and run with it.
 
RABID said:
??

Were the 613 Mitzvot meant only for the Jews? I'm not POSITIVE, but I'm thinking there was not much fragmentation between Jews and Christians back then. Before Jesus and all.

Unless the Christians decided to pick 10 of the commandments and run with it.
Click to expand...

The OT was largely replaced by the events and the covenent established by the NT. Much of the process of the transformation was expressed in the NT.
 
byco42 said:
The OT was largely replaced by the events and the covenent established by the NT. Much of the process of the transformation was expressed in the NT.
Click to expand...


Religion is so damn confusing. Why do Christians ignore the Coran?
Are the 1 Billion Hindus in the world all going to Hell?
How about the 1 Billion Buddhists?

Who had the authority to superceed the Old Testament with the new?
I'm not being a smartass here. I really don't understand how they decided to replace the Old Testament gospel with new instructions. Who would be able to write the Third Testament now if they decided they didn't like something in the NT? Or do they split off new sects and disregard what they don't like? (ie: Orthodox/Catholic/Protestant/Baptist/Mormon/Presbyterian/Quakers/UFO/Heaven's Gate/Branch Dividian etc etc)
 
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