OTL Report

[gotime909]

There is a witch hunt going on for Izzo and Dantonio right now.

Not really, just a bad journalist and some shitty scUM fans.

 

[Sbee]

Not really, just a bad journalist and some shitty scUM fans.

I hope we come out with a rebuttal, not to be insensitive to accusers but to show that MD called the title 9 office immediately after hearing about the incident with king coreky and Vance, they were immediately suspended and later dismissed. He actually had a speaker come to talk about assault the week prior. That stuff doesn't get mentioned, along with the prosecutor clearing Payne and appling. That needs to be heard

 

[johnny2x2x]

The witness in it backing off her story some.

And get this, ESPN filmed and wrote the story in August. They sat in it until the day Nassar was sentenced to do maximum damage. Yeah, that ESPN writer cares so much about victims she sat in this story for the last 5 months. Fuck her and fuck ESPN.

 

[sggatecl]

The witness in it backing off her story some.

And get this, ESPN filmed and wrote the story in August. They sat in it until the day Nassar sentenced to do maximum damage. Yeah, that ESPN writer cares so much about victims she sat in this story for the last 5 months. Fuck her and fuck ESPN.

They're desperate for ratings and clicks. I'm not surprised in the least. Fuck ESPN.

 

[MSUMatt28]

Just saw Izzo answering a couple of the questions on this tossed his way after today's game, and he basically just completely evaded them. I get that he's not going to be in the mood to talk about any of that right after a game and also want to play it safe, especially after misspeaking some in the Nassar case. But it's not a good look, and he needs to address them at some point, and soon.

And yeah. F ESPN.

 

[tomdalton22]

I'm sure PSU fans didn't like the coverage of the Sandusky case either.

 

[Spartanmack]

I'm sure PSU fans didn't like the coverage of the Sandusky case either.

are you saying they're equivalent? Can you show us some evidence of similarly baseless claims that attempted to link the Sandusky case to other programs at PSU? Are you saying this situation where doctor who it turns out is a monster, manipulated young girls and investigators under the pretense of performing legitimate, necessary medical procedures to commit vile crimes for 20 years and then a reporter trying to make a link from that to the football and basketball programs without evidence is the same as reporting on a different monster raping young boys in the shower and his colleagues actively covering it up. And if there were no attempts to link Sandusky's scandal to other programs, were PSU fans complaining about the way it was covered? Most PSU fans I know were not but I'm sure if ESPN tried to link that cover up to the wrestling or basketaball or women's gymnastics program with no actual evidence, they'd probably have something to say about that.

I'm not aware of any complaints by anyone here or any other MSU fans and I know many of them, about the coverage of the actual scandal - not one. Quite the contrary - to a person, they are all appalled by what they are reading/hearing about this disgrace of a human being. They all want to know what happened, how it can be prevented at MSU and anywhere else - hopefully everyone learns from this - and those involved are receive adequate punishment.

 

[Sbee]

are you saying they're equivalent? Can you show us some evidence of similarly baseless claims that attempted to link the Sandusky case to other programs at PSU? Are you saying this situation where doctor who it turns out is a monster, manipulated young girls and investigators under the pretense of performing legitimate, necessary medical procedures to commit vile crimes for 20 years and then a reporter trying to make a link from that to the football and basketball programs without evidence is the same as reporting on a different monster raping young boys in the shower and his colleagues actively covering it up. And if there were no attempts to link Sandusky's scandal to other programs, were PSU fans complaining about the way it was covered? Most PSU fans I know were not but I'm sure if ESPN tried to link that cover up to the wrestling or basketaball or women's gymnastics program with no actual evidence, they'd probably have something to say about that.

I'm not aware of any complaints by anyone here or any other MSU fans and I know many of them, about the coverage of the actual scandal - not one. Quite the contrary - to a person, they are all appalled by what they are reading/hearing about this disgrace of a human being. They all want to know what happened, how it can be prevented at MSU and anywhere else - hopefully everyone learns from this - and those involved are receive adequate punishment.

Very well said here, ESPN is trying to throw a wide blanket to cover Nassar along with household names in Izzo and Dantonio. This story was filmed in August and then sat on until the sentencing in order to link unrelated stories together.

Also, just an FYI, Nassar did not report up through MSU athletics, he was not a part of the athletic department. He was a doctor and reported through the medical chain of command, same thing with athletic trainers, they don't report through Hollis.

 

[tomdalton22]

Also, just an FYI, Nassar did not report up through MSU athletics, he was not a part of the athletic department. He was a doctor and reported through the medical chain of command, same thing with athletic trainers, they don't report through Hollis.

lack of oversight does not reduce culpability.

 

[Sbee]

lack of oversight does not reduce culpability.

Just a point that Hollis shouldn't have to be punished for lack of oversight if Nassar wasn't a part of his jurisdiction.

I personally feel that you should be punished or lose your job if you are responsible, not if people below you aren't responsible. Just an example, I don't think Snyder should have stepped down over the Flint water crisis, it was a horrible situation and those responsible were fired, but just being at the top doesn't mean that you should fall for what happens below you. That's my take, some people think that those at the top should resign, but using that logic, parents should be responsible for crimes their kids commit.

 

[Sbee]

I just posted this on the UM board, there was a lot of discussion about this over there. I was out of town last week, just got back yesterday and did not see the OTL report, but I've heard and read enough to have an idea of what was covered.




I think ESPN is trying to throw a large blanket over unrelated things, Nassar was a monster, he deserves to be in jail until he dies and he will. The gymnastics coach was fired last year but is either criminally negligent or a sociopath, one or the other. It's unfortunate that Simon and Hollis had to step down, I think they're good people. I don't think it's fair, but as the leader of an organization, some people think you're responsible for all of the behavior that happens in that organization, if that's your rationale, then they should step down. Just a clarification though, Nassar and the athletic trainers don't report up through the athletic department, they are the medical staff, not athletic.

On Izzo

The Appling and Payne thing is total BS, the Ingham county prosecutor investigated the allegations almost 8 years ago and determined that no crime had occurred, not that there wasn't evidence, not that the accuser declined to press charges, but that no crime happened, no rape. If you believe in the justice system then you should accept that they are exonerated. No blame to Izzo for not suspending them since it was determined they hadn't committed a crime.

The Walton case is the most disturbing, not as much the assault, as bad as that could be. That was investigated and no charges filed, I believe in guilty until proven innocent and the accused has rights. That's not the concern, there's a vague reference to a rape involving Walton and two other basketball players. There aren't a lot of details about that, if ESPN had them, they would be out there. The fact that little is know is scary, maybe the details come out and clear everyone, but the unknown is frightening.

On MD

There is no evidence that things weren't handled properly. ESPN mentions the Corley/King/Vance situation last year. When MD found out, he told the title 9 office immediately, the players were removed from student housing pending investigation and Dantonio had no contact with them. Once they were charged, they were kicked off the team. ESPN does not mention that.

It is MSU policy (and most likely policy at almost every university) to withhold the name of the accused and accuser until an investigation produces a decision to charge or not. If someone is accused and it's determined that there was no crime (Appling, Payne), you shouldn't damage someones name if they didn't commit a crime. If they are charged, all information will be public, like it was with Corley, etc.


As for the reactions of some MSU fans talking about Gibbons, etc. Well, that was a bad situation and Hoke's comments were a problem but this shouldn't be about Michigan. This should be about MSU but also college athletics in general, not just rivals. You see a lot of players kicked off for violations of team rules with no explanation. If the reason is criminal, that's public, but more often it's not. There are also times when players just transfer or were told to transfer, but there's no explanation. I'm sure fans of every program don't want the cover pulled back on the violations of team rules, it would give them all a black eye that they don't want.

18-22 young men make mistakes, sometimes commit crimes, that's just a given. I don't know if athletes do more or less than the average 18-22 year old, I'd guess it's about on par. That is just going to happen, having integrity as a university and athletic department depends on your response when that happens. Everything I've seen from MD makes me feel confident that he's handled things properly. As for Izzo, the Walton potential rape is a question that needs answering. I hope there's a way that he can clear the air about that, but that is the one thing about this whole report that is unanswered to me and needs to be addressed.

 

[Michchamp]

I'm sure PSU fans didn't like the coverage of the Sandusky case either.

nice!

 

[johnny2x2x]

https://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2010/09/report_two_michigan_state_bask.html

"Dunnings said. "That's what I always do. Miss Bouck indicated there would be no charges, and the victim didn't have a problem with it."

The Appling and Payne issue was resolved a month before they played their first game as MSU Spartans. So it's not like they were under investigation and playing. Any issue under Dantonio is well documented that he handled it properly.

The last accusation ESPN has is that Hollis may have handled an accusation outside of calling the police, but why would anyone believe ESPN's version when literally everything else in their article and story has been shown to be bull shit.

 

[Sbee]

nice!

Grow up, these are different cases, I'd think you'd be smart enough not to agree with TomDalton on this. There was evidence of a deliberate cover up at PSU at the highest levels. At MSU, all you have are lower level people being told and believing that the touching was medically necessary. There's no defense for having sex with a young boy, but there was at least a plausible explanation for Nassar doing what he did (at least at the time). Doctors have corroborated his story that pelvic manipulations can help gymnastics injuries, I've been told by a few people that they have been recommended for them in the past though they declined.

This is way different than PSU

 

[Sbee]

https://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2010/09/report_two_michigan_state_bask.html

"Dunnings said. "That's what I always do. Miss Bouck indicated there would be no charges, and the victim didn't have a problem with it."

The Appling and Payne issue was resolved a month before they played their first game as MSU Spartans. So it's not like they were under investigation and playing. Any issue under Dantonio is well documented that he handled it properly.

The last accusation ESPN has is that Hollis may have handled an accusation outside of calling the police, but why would anyone believe ESPN's version when literally everything else in their article and story has been shown to be bull shit.

I think the Appling and Payne thing is BS, it's very unfortunate that Payne was released from the Magic because of it, considering he was cleared 8 years ago.

The disturbing incident is the Walton accusation, which we know very little about. If the reporters were just asking about Appling and Payne, Izzo could easily instruct them to read the report from the prosecutors office.

 

[MSUMatt28]

Payne would not have been released if he was a double digit scoring starter vs a guy near the end of the bench. Kind of a gutless, knee-jerk reaction by the Magic without getting the whole story, but also one they could easily get away with given his production level.

 

[Sbee]

Payne would not have been released if he was a double digit scoring starter vs a guy near the end of the bench. Kind of a gutless, knee-jerk reaction by the Magic without getting the whole story, but also one they could easily get away with given his production level.

right, there is a sliding scale of morality when it comes to these things. Regardless, someone that's cleared of a crime 8 years previously should not lose his job because of that.

 

[tomdalton22]

At MSU, all you have are lower level people being told and believing that the touching was medically necessary. There's no defense for having sex with a young boy, but there was at least a plausible explanation for Nassar doing what he did (at least at the time). Doctors have corroborated his story that pelvic manipulations can help gymnastics injuries, I've been told by a few people that they have been recommended for them in the past though they declined.

This is way different than PSU

I didn't say they were the same...I was talking about some fans making different levels of excuses.

This is a great example. :tup:

 

[Sbee]

I didn't say they were the same...I was talking about some fans making different levels of excuses.

This is a great example. :tup:

That's no excuse, it's the unfortunate reality of this situation. Had the title 9 office come to the proper conclusion in 2014, lots of lives would be better off.

 

[johnny2x2x]

It's also important to know that the numbers ESPN is coming up with include an alleged incident in 2007 that was found in the diary of a deceased woman by her parents in 2012 and then reported to police in 2014. The girl wrote in her diary that she was assaulted in 2007 at a different college campus than MSU by 4 MSU football players, the girl dies in 2012 as a result of alcohol and medication she was taking. A dead girl's diary is not evidence that is actionable, in fact the police followed up with the 4 players, 2 of which had no idea who the girl was.

I mean come on. People write all kinds of strange things in their diaries. They're seriously making a story out of that incident?

Dantonio has zero to worry about, he's done nothing wrong.

And the only thing people are concerned about with Izzo is the Walton sex assault allegations ESPN claims because no one had ever heard of that before. I seriously doubt Izzo did anything wrong there either, if he did he should face consequences.

Edit: So with Walton, the sex assault accusations were made over a year after he left MSU to go play in Europe. So they allegedly occurred while he was a GA, but not reported to anyone by the alleged victim until well over a year later. If so, Izzo did zero wrong in that case too.