Paris Notre Dame Cathedral on Fire

[byco42]

Imagine turning into an Edmonton style mall.

You could even pay to have yours sins wiped away. But I doubt the Mafia would try that again.... kinda backfired on them in the end but they made such a killing on that protection racket.

Not much an informed assessment of purchasing indulgences. The Church never, as a Church, did this, and the council of Trent quashed the outliers, going on 600 years ago.

For as much as you know about hockey, you are highly misinformed on this topic.

 

[tomdalton22]

Instead of spending over $1B to re-build the cathedral, why don't they build housing for the 2,500+ people that sleep in the streets of Paris. That would be the christian thing to do...wouldn't it?

 

[byco42]

Instead of spending over $1B to re-build the cathedral, why don't they build housing for the 2,500+ people that sleep in the streets of Paris. That would be the christian thing to do...wouldn't it?

Seems to me that both could happen for that outlay.

 

[tomdalton22]

Seems to me that both could happen for that outlay.

my guess is the church is re-built and the rest of the $$ goes into the catholic church coffers.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Not much an informed assessment of purchasing indulgences. The Church never, as a Church, did this, and the council of Trent quashed the outliers, going on 600 years ago.

For as much as you know about hockey, you are highly misinformed on this topic.

Euro hockey is a commie game.

I don?t know why commie puck heads would be expected to know much about the history of the Catholic Church.

 

[byco42]

my guess is the church is re-built and the rest of the $$ goes into the catholic church coffers.

First the pledges have to materialize as actual specie. Most of it hasn't yet.

 

[byco42]

Euro hockey is a commie game.

I don?t know why commie puck heads would be expected to know much about the history of the Catholic Church.

I would expect those visor-wearing floaters to at least be aware of their unawareness and refrain from making inaccurate posts that border on calumny.

 

[Polish-Hammer]

Not much an informed assessment of purchasing indulgences. The Church never, as a Church, did this, and the council of Trent quashed the outliers, going on 600 years ago.

For as much as you know about hockey, you are highly misinformed on this topic.

So Popes Julius II and Leo X didn't profit from the sale of indulgences?

Good to know.


Although, I am fairly certain Julius II had his special indulgences for sale to help fund building some church in Rome.

But I guess the Pope has nothing to do with the actual church, my bad.

Thus another reason for sticking to my Commie Puck.

 

[byco42]

So Popes Julius II and Leo X didn't profit from the sale of indulgences?

Good to know.


Although, I am fairly certain Julius II had his special indulgences for sale to help fund building some church in Rome.

But I guess the Pope has nothing to do with the actual church, my bad.

Thus another reason for sticking to my Commie Puck.

The Church never sold indlugences, so no pope profited from the sale of them, so your certainty is not likely from research from any reliable source. I'm not convinced you know what an indulgence is, nor its purpose. They are still granted today and I have received them for doing a spiritual and/or charitable act.

And your unbelief stems from the same root that everyone's does: Pride. It's infectious. No one is immune.

 

[Polish-Hammer]

I am sorry to inform you that St. Peter's church in Rome was largely funded through the sales of indulgences.

This was done explicitly under Julius II and Leo X.

Specific example was Leo X allowing the sale of indulgences in Mainz and Magdeburg. Leo himself issued the order on March 31, 1515. The split was 50% to the the dioceses/Fugger financial house and 50% to Rome.

Kiermayr, R. (1986). How Much Money was Actually in the Indulgence Chest? The Sixteenth Century Journal, 17(3), 303-318.


It was this act which directly led to the protestant reformation.



And yes I am generally aware of what indulgences are. Such as those issued by Popes to encourage crusaders. Kill all the muslims you want, and you shall be rewarded in the afterlife.

 

[Polish-Hammer]

The Role of Indulgences in the Building of New Saint Peter’s Basilica is also a decent read. I believe it can be viewed online for free.


Although a quick google search will find you 1000s of results. I mean, the sale of indulgences read to the protestant sects.

 

[byco42]

I am sorry to inform you that St. Peter's church in Rome was largely funded through the sales of indulgences.

This was done explicitly under Julius II and Leo X.

Specific example was Leo X allowing the sale of indulgences in Mainz and Magdeburg. Leo himself issued the order on March 31, 1515. The split was 50% to the the dioceses/Fugger financial house and 50% to Rome.

Kiermayr, R. (1986). How Much Money was Actually in the Indulgence Chest? The Sixteenth Century Journal, 17(3), 303-318.


It was this act which directly led to the protestant reformation.



And yes I am generally aware of what indulgences are. Such as those issued by Popes to encourage crusaders. Kill all the muslims you want, and you shall be rewarded in the afterlife.

No "sales" were transacted. Almsgiving is not a sale. Charitable donations are not sales. This is not a quid pro quo arrangement. I am aware of how St. Peter's was built. And your "explanation" of an indulgence illustrates my point that you do not know their intent. Or the nature of Heaven. Or anything that is associated with Catholicism. As for the Protestant reformation, well, there are more than 40,000 sects now, so that didn't work out so well.

Either one church is the right one, or all of them are wrong.

 

[Polish-Hammer]

At least bother reading that thesis paper.

https://scholarship.rollins.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1006&context=mls



I know its easy to live in prideful ignorance.

 

[tomdalton22]

IMO, religions are the original "snake oil salesman". They are actually selling something that doesn't exist. Made up stories to trick people into giving them money. Think about it...telling people if they give money and you will be "happy for eternity"

Think about that logically. Give me 10% of your money and you will go to heaven. If you do something wrong, just say you're sorry, give me some money and you will still go to heaven. Kill some infidels and you get to screw 30 virgins...in heaven.

The ultimate snake oil salesmen!

 

[byco42]

IMO, religions are the original "snake oil salesman". They are actually selling something that doesn't exist. Made up stories to trick people into giving them money. Think about it...telling people if they give money and you will be "happy for eternity"

Think about that logically. Give me 10% of your money and you will go to heaven. If you do something wrong, just say you're sorry, give me some money and you will still go to heaven. Kill some infidels and you get to screw 30 virgins...in heaven.

The ultimate snake oil salesmen!

Were that the actual truth about the Catholic Church, I would carry the other pole of the banner with you. There is a "prosperity gospel" movement out there that I discount, however.

Like I said, either one church is right, or all of them are wrong.

 

[byco42]

At least bother reading that thesis paper.

https://scholarship.rollins.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1006&context=mls



I know its easy to live in prideful ignorance.

A college thesis paper. Ok. I'll read it.

Here's a Catholic explanation of indulgences. Call it opposition research if you'd like.

 

[Polish-Hammer]

Very much in line with the thesis.

Except part 7 which is grossly out of line with historical records.

 

[byco42]

Very much in line with the thesis.

Except part 7 which is grossly out of line with historical records.

Well, many of these historical records are inaccurate. Started reading the thesis. Did not take long for the author to introduce terms like "greed" "corruption" "scandal" and "schism" ... I agree with the "schism" -- which was fomented by the heretic Luther, who decided for himself that his judgement was superior to God Himself.

I'll finish it, though, and consider it one person's opinion.

 

[Michchamp]

Man, can you imagine how brutal the religion forum of this board would be, if it had been around in the 16th century? yikes.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Man, can you imagine how brutal the religion forum of this board would be, if it had been around in the 16th century? yikes.

Just the whole Middle English part of it would brutal, by itself.