Penn State should get the death penalty

[Michchamp]

the more I think about this, the more obvious it is.

too late to allow current players to transfer, but suspend their 2013 (maybe also 2014) season. All players get to transfer with no loss of eligibility. this gets around the whiners who insist this would punish the wrong people. This applies only to football, so it shouldn't otherwise affect conference ties; the Big Ten should get to hold the championship game in football still (no conference penalty).

the lack of institutional control was even more egregious than at SMU. To deny that is to say the crimes Sandusky committed, using Penn St facilities, enabled by the administration's lack of action, weren't as big a deal as SMU boosters' payments to players, which is absurd.

Penn st. has to rebuild from scratch starting in 2014/2015; ban any former coaches from contact with the program & school, like we did with the Fab 5.

 

[wheels002]

From what I heard Emmert say it sounds like they will get hammered as they should but I am not sure if they will get the death penalty.

 

[TheVictors]

One possible sanction was to force the school to rename itself as: Bring 'Em Young University

 

[redandguilty]

I completely disagree. As far as I'm aware (of course, I haven't read the NCAA rules) there are no NCAA violations here. The NCAA isn't in the business of policing everything, just college athletics.

Would people even be talking about this if it wasn't a football program? If this happened at a hospital, would people want to shut down the hospital? If Kaczynski started his Unabomber stuff while he was at Michigan, and there was a cover up, and everyone involved went to jail, would we then call to shut down the math department at Michigan?

It seems completely inappropriate to me, like Parker Brothers-telling-Bernie Madoff-he's-not-allowed-to-play-Monopoly-anymore inappropriate. This may uncover loss of control issues, (it seems Paterno was able to keep players out of the legal system when they should have been in legal trouble) but I don't think an NCAA infraction has been uncovered yet in relation to the Sandusky cover up.

 

[Michchamp]

I completely disagree. As far as I'm aware (of course, I haven't read the NCAA rules) there are no NCAA violations here. The NCAA isn't in the business of policing everything, just college athletics.

Would people even be talking about this if it wasn't a football program? If this happened at a hospital, would people want to shut down the hospital? If Kaczynski started his Unabomber stuff while he was at Michigan, and there was a cover up, and everyone involved went to jail, would we then call to shut down the math department at Michigan?

It seems completely inappropriate to me, like Parker Brothers-telling-Bernie Madoff-he's-not-allowed-to-play-Monopoly-anymore inappropriate. This may uncover loss of control issues, (it seems Paterno was able to keep players out of the legal system when they should have been in legal trouble) but I don't think an NCAA infraction has been uncovered yet in relation to the Sandusky cover up.

No, the cover upp directly involved the psu fb program. the other examples you cite can,be distinguished for that reason.

 

[redandguilty]

No, the cover upp directly involved the psu fb program. the other examples you cite can,be distinguished for that reason.

what if the football program covered up a murder? how about a fight? how a about public drunkeness? cheating on taxes? speeding? what if they just lie about a coaching search to protect their image? There's no line here because you're applying the wrong rulebook.

 

[cheeno]

what if the football program covered up a murder? how about a fight? how a about public drunkeness? cheating on taxes? speeding? what if they just lie about a coaching search to protect their image? There's no line here because you're applying the wrong rulebook.

You're right Red in the fact that they will have to rule on something other than Sandusky.

NCAA Extra benefits rule possibly broken by Paterno:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...f-student-affairs-about-paterno-trigger-ncaa

 

[Michchamp]

what if the football program covered up a murder? how about a fight? how a about public drunkeness? cheating on taxes? speeding? what if they just lie about a coaching search to protect their image? There's no line here because you're applying the wrong rulebook.

Tinsel said the same shit before eventually agreeing with me; see thread in Michigan section titled "So..."

 

[redandguilty]

You're right Red in the fact that they will have to rule on something other than Sandusky.

NCAA Extra benefits rule possibly broken by Paterno:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...f-student-affairs-about-paterno-trigger-ncaa

Yeah. I thought the case was from 2007, but the way Paterno treated his players as above the law seems more like a loss of institutional control to me. Maybe there are 2 cases. The one I'm thinking of involve most of the D beating people up and Paterno insisting that they couldn't ask players to rats eachother out because they needed to trust eachother.

 

[cheeno]

Yeah. I thought the case was from 2007, but the way Paterno treated his players as above the law seems more like a loss of institutional control to me. Maybe there are 2 cases. The one I'm thinking of involve most of the D beating people up and Paterno insisting that they couldn't ask players to rats eachother out because they needed to trust eachother.

The fact that the emails show that Paterno had enough power that he could essentially override student violations (and possible suspensions) from the proper administrative authorities can be deemed extra benefits. And although this happens at a whole host of D1 schools, the emails and I'm sure testimony may be proof enough to sanction.

 

[Michchamp]

according to this article, the Big Ten is mulling over some action.

I do think booting PennSt from the conference may be over the line; the football program was the problem. it was a cancer there, and that's where the punishment should fall.

 

[amajjd]

Im not in the majority who think they should get the "death penalty" either. I think anyone involved in the cover up should be charged with a crime or fired but the rest of the school should not suffer from these mistakes.

If anything PSU should be donating a bunch of their ticket sales to helping stop anymore of these acts from happening. Reaching out to help all of the victims of this monster and any person in the state of Pennsylvania that needs help because they were abused. Shutting the program down will only piss more people off, why not make them pay for their crime in other ways that would benefit someone and help people.

I know the NCAA can't make them do those things but making a strong suggestion might help.

 

[Michchamp]

Im not in the majority who think they should get the "death penalty" either. I think anyone involved in the cover up should be charged with a crime or fired but the rest of the school should not suffer from these mistakes.

...

everyone involved has been charged, is dead, or was convicted.

Curley, Spanier, etc. are awaiting trial.

The DP has to be handed down though, because the school benefited from the coverup for 10+ years. How many tickets did they sell from '99 to '11? How much Paterno-related marketing and schpiel sold their program to recruits?

after what we just saw at ohio, it's clear there needs to be greater financial costs to the school for breaking rules so systematically. there was no institutional control in either place... failing to suspend the program for a year sends the wrong message:

"Don't get caught, but if you do, just fire a couple wrongdoers. you get to keep all the benefits of the cheating/cover-up, and go one playing football though."
​

also... yeah... some of the crimes were directly enabled by the program & cover-up... sick and twisted.

 

[cheeno]

everyone involved has been charged, is dead, or was convicted.

Curley, Spanier, etc. are awaiting trial.

The DP has to be handed down though, because the school benefited from the coverup for 10+ years. How many tickets did they sell from '99 to '11? How much Paterno-related marketing and schpiel sold their program to recruits?

after what we just saw at ohio, it's clear there needs to be greater financial costs to the school for breaking rules so systematically. there was no institutional control in either place... failing to suspend the program for a year sends the wrong message:

"Don't get caught, but if you do, just fire a couple wrongdoers. you get to keep all the benefits of the cheating/cover-up, and go one playing football though."
​

also... yeah... some of the crimes were directly enabled by the program & cover-up... sick and twisted.

This is a great argument.

 

[amajjd]

I understand your argument and if they get the DP Im not going to complain about it or say they didn't deserve it.

I just think that more good would come from them being in the forefront of helping victims of these type of crimes and more awareness to tell someone when this type of stuff happens. The DP would be the punishment and that's it.

There is no right or wrong answer because what happened was very wrong and there is nothing that will fix that part of the story.

Update: looks like Nick Saban and me are talking about the same thing. Not sure if that is good or bad!

http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=8180229


As for comparing this to OSU I'll just leave that alone.

 

[redandguilty]

everyone involved has been charged, is dead, or was convicted.

Curley, Spanier, etc. are awaiting trial.

The DP has to be handed down though, because the school benefited from the coverup for 10+ years. How many tickets did they sell from '99 to '11? How much Paterno-related marketing and schpiel sold their program to recruits?

after what we just saw at ohio, it's clear there needs to be greater financial costs to the school for breaking rules so systematically. there was no institutional control in either place... failing to suspend the program for a year sends the wrong message:

"Don't get caught, but if you do, just fire a couple wrongdoers. you get to keep all the benefits of the cheating/cover-up, and go one playing football though."
​

also... yeah... some of the crimes were directly enabled by the program & cover-up... sick and twisted.

How did the program benefit? They covered up a crime to protect their image. That's not a benefit. There are no NCAA rules about image.

 

[Michchamp]

How did the program benefit? They covered up a crime to protect their image. That's not a benefit. There are no NCAA rules about image.

how did Penn State benefit from covering up horrific crimes committed by an enabled by current and former coaches and staff?

Can anyone help Red understand this very simple concept?

 

[redandguilty]

how did Penn State benefit from covering up horrific crimes committed by an enabled by current and former coaches and staff?

Can anyone help Red understand this very simple concept?

You're the legal beagle around here. I think extra benefits only apply to student-athletes. Is there such a thing as an extra benefit for people that are eligible to be paid whatever arbitrary salary you deem acceptable?

 

[redandguilty]

...and I think lack of institutional control is only with respect to other NCAA rules. The institution has to be in control of things like extra benefits.

 

[redandguilty]

No, the cover upp directly involved the psu fb program. the other examples you cite can,be distinguished for that reason.

Also, I don't follow your meaning here. What is the distinguishing feature between a hospital and a football program that makes a crime warrant shutting down the program an obvious necessity in one case but not the other?