Pitcher mad over this?

[Mitchrapp]

Absolutely he could. There's literally NO DEFENDER over by third base. If he works on it and gets better he could absolutely do better than 1 in 5.

Here's an excerpt from an article I posted before on this topic:

The undisputed king of bunting to beat the shift is Carlos Pena. Since 2008, with nobody on, Pena has attempted a bunt 65 times. He?s bunted the ball fair 33 times, and he?s reached base 23 times. Even with practice, Pena?s right around a 50/50 fair/not-fair rate, but he?s turned better than a third of his attempts into bases. We find Jay Bruce at 30 attempts, with nine fair and five successful. Brian McCann also has 30 attempts, with eight fair and six successful. What?s clear is that bunting against the shift isn?t automatic. What?s also clear is that it?s worked often, and that these hitters could do better if they just practiced their bunting more.

Source: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/more-about-bunting-and-beating-the-shift/

Okay so 3 guys were somewhat okay. I'm curious about Pena, how many times in the 23 did he score? Because at the end of the day if a power guy bunts for a base hit but doesn't score what's the point?

 

[Mitchrapp]

Yeah, yeah, I thought you meant the hitter in this story, Colby Rasmus.

As far as Avila, rather than bunting every time he walks up to the plate, I would prefer he just launch his body into the pitch, and wear one for the team to get on base.

Yes, yes, yes.

 

[UMRules06]

Okay so 3 guys were somewhat okay. I'm curious about Pena, how many times in the 23 did he score? Because at the end of the day if a power guy bunts for a base hit but doesn't score what's the point?

Well not recording an out is kind of the point. What happens after that is out of the batter's hands. It also perhaps forces the defense to abandon the shift, or at least adjust it in future at bats. This can help the batter swing away into holes he's more comfortable hitting into.

Again I'm just talking about ONCE IN A WHILE bunt against the shift, and it can pay dividends. You're acting like I'm saying always do it. You still will have plenty of chances to swing away and try for homers and doubles.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Avila is a home run and RBI guy now? That's news to me. Their job is to help the team win first and foremost. Nobody's job is to just hit doubles and home runs. Don't get an out and that's just fine by me.

Now again I'm not advocating ALWAYS bunting against the shift, or even bunting OFTEN against the shift. I do agree you don't want to constantly take the bat out of a guy's hands. But once in a while, just take the free hit and keep the defense guessing.

"There's something effeminate about a power hitter laying down a bunt, when he's known for hitting the occasional 400 foot bomb. That's the reason guys don't like to do it, not because it doesn't make strategic sense."

You mentioned power hitter responded..

 

[tinselwolverine]

"There's something effeminate about a power hitter laying down a bunt, when he's known for hitting the occasional 400 foot bomb. That's the reason guys don't like to do it, not because it doesn't make strategic sense."

You mentioned power hitter responded..

I think I remember reading that when Mantle still had decent legs, he liked to lay down a drag bunt every now then - especially leading off an inning - and did it with a pretty good degree of effectiveness.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Well not recording an out is kind of the point. What happens after that is out of the batter's hands. It also perhaps forces the defense to abandon the shift, or at least adjust it in future at bats. This can help the batter swing away into holes he's more comfortable hitting into.

Again I'm just talking about ONCE IN A WHILE bunt against the shift, and it can pay dividends. You're acting like I'm saying always do it. You still will have plenty of chances to swing away and try for homers and doubles.

Because for a guy like Ortiz..it's never worth it. Or anyone like him..they still have a P and C who can get that bunt..a guy like Pena his whole career is hitting homeruns..who cares if he can beat out a bunt that goes nowhere..

 

[tinselwolverine]

I think I remember reading that when Mantle still had decent legs, he liked to lay down a drag bunt every now then - especially leading off an inning - and did it with a pretty good degree of effectiveness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q2Qx6gVXq0

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

There is an element of Sun Tzu that says you take the base the enemy is giving you. You also fight on the ground of your choosing instead of the shift. You are also being weak where your enemy thinks you are strong.

You turn over the lineup, you piss off their pitcher, you give the players behind you a chance and you make them wonder next time if you're gonna do it again.

If you shift don't get made when a guy bunts - Colby Lewis is absurd.

 

[UMRules06]

Well obviously we're not going to agree here haha. Once in a blue moon I think it's fine for a guy to take a free single against a shift. You clearly do not.

http://cdn.fangraphs.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/MorrisonBunt.gif.opt_.gif

Tell me if a guy puts a bunt where this player did...how is he NOT going to beat it out unless he's David Ortiz and can't run? I think even Ortiz might have been safe on that play.

 

[Mitchrapp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q2Qx6gVXq0

Mickey can do anything he wants..but I'd still want him swinging a way.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Awesome clip Tinsel! Thank you.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Well obviously we're not going to agree here haha. Once in a blue moon I think it's fine for a guy to take a free single against a shift. You clearly do not.

http://cdn.fangraphs.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/MorrisonBunt.gif.opt_.gif

Tell me if a guy puts a bunt where this player did...how is he NOT going to beat it out unless he's David Ortiz and can't run? I think even Ortiz might have been safe on that play.

Well...I think if a guy got three base hit bunts in four straight bunt attempts against a shift, the shift would likely come to an end.

 

[UMRules06]

Well...I think if a guy got three base hit bunts in four straight bunt attempts against a shift, the shift would likely come to an end.

And that's part of the goal. To eliminate the shift against you. Now you can go back to swinging away.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Well obviously we're not going to agree here haha. Once in a blue moon I think it's fine for a guy to take a free single against a shift. You clearly do not.

http://cdn.fangraphs.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/MorrisonBunt.gif.opt_.gif

Tell me if a guy puts a bunt where this player did...how is he NOT going to beat it out unless he's David Ortiz and can't run? I think even Ortiz might have been safe on that play.

It's not about beating out a bunt..first it's getting the ball down in fair territory, past the P and far from the catcher. Even speed guys, overall, don't bunt well.

 

[Mitchrapp]

And that's part of the goal. To eliminate the shift against you. Now you can go back to swinging away.

Except you just wasted 3 shots of getting a bigger hit. It's not black in white..can you imagine Avila getting 3 bunts down..I sure can't.

 

[Mitchrapp]

And if it was so easy and the managers thought it worthy..it would be done more, eh?

 

[tomdalton22]

Except you just wasted 3 shots of getting a bigger hit. It's not black in white..can you imagine Avila getting 3 bunts down..I sure can't.

hopefully, all of this over shifting will make some of these dead pull hitters use all of the field. Maybe go the opposite way once in a while.

As far as the main point of the article...the pitcher was mad that the batter didn't swing away. That tells me that the pitcher wants the batter to swing away and likely hit right into the shift.

 

[UMRules06]

Except you just wasted 3 shots of getting a bigger hit. It's not black in white..can you imagine Avila getting 3 bunts down..I sure can't.

In this silly scenario we're talking 3 definite singles, vs 3 possible extra base hits. Give me 3 definite singles every time.

And yes I can imagine Avila laying down a bunt. I hardly ever see him do it, so I don't even know what it would really look like lol. All I have to go on is my imagination.

Here's another power hitter bunting. The horror! http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/la/...ymd=20140629&content_id=82315210&vkey=news_la

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Except you just wasted 3 shots of getting a bigger hit. It's not black in white..can you imagine Avila getting 3 bunts down..I sure can't.

It will only happen with nobody on. If that is happening the entire game then chances are you need baserunners.

 

[UMRules06]

And if it was so easy and the managers thought it worthy..it would be done more, eh?

I already addressed this. Players are competitors and have male pride at stake. I'm sure if most guys are asked to bunt more they will scoff and say "no way man I hit homers and doubles! I ain't bunting!"