Question for you political gurus

[Gulo Blue]

back in Michigan the bogeyman was always that proverbial long-time Ford or GM worker who had 2500 sq ft house, a boat, a weekend place up north etc, which would absolutely ENRAGE the person telling the story, even though this had no bearing on their own life whatsoever.

That guy existed 20 years ago. Anyone still complaining about this needs their info updated, but this was real. And when the economy is strong and most people are doing ok, fine, nobody complains. But as things got bad, and sometimes the winners and losers appeared to had nothing to do with merit, people got upset.

 

[tomdalton22]

part of the problem is the lenders. When we went to buy our last house we went to get pre-approved. Based on our income, credit scores and recurring debt the bank approved us for a $450K loan! We were looking for houses in the $200K price range (which is what we bought)

 

[Gulo Blue]

part of the problem is the lenders. When we went to buy our last house we went to get pre-approved. Based on our income, credit scores and recurring debt the bank approved us for a $450K loan! We were looking for houses in the $200K price range (which is what we bought)

Yeah, lenders were crazy in the 2000s. Not even close to the 2-3x salary rule. More like 5-10.

 

[tinselwolverine]

you're pretty out of touch if you think a $200k house is excessive for someone working full time. a $40k car, sure. but buying an expensive car is a dumb decision for most of the population, regardless of their income level or skill/unskilled status. $200k buys you not much of a house in most cities or suburbs, unless you're willing to live way out in the country and endure long commutes & pay more for gas.

Even out in Clarkston, a person probably couldn't buy Kid Rock's house for $200K.

 

[tsmith7559]

Even out in Clarkston, a person probably couldn't buy Kid Rock's house for $200K.

Couldn't buy a vacant lot in most areas...

 

[TheVictors]

I could pay cash for kid rocks house and his loser neighbors too

 

[tsmith7559]

I could pay cash for kid rocks house and his loser neighbors too

Buy some hair plugs first

 

[Thumb]

Buy some hair plugs first

Hey, remember this? http://detroitsportsforum.com/showthread.php?t=19822&page=4

Please cancel my account

LOL

 

[Michchamp]

Hey, remember this? http://detroitsportsforum.com/showthread.php?t=19822&page=4



LOL

no matter how hard he tries, tLiar just can't quit the board

he keeps coming back for more abuse.

 

[tsmith7559]

They don't want to terminate my account..I guess they see this forum slowly dieing and they need anyone they can to post..the politics/religion forum has declined in traffic in the last 2 yrs,, it should be called michump forum..pretty said. I come around some, but frankly there isn't much on here to actually discuss. The posters who remain are socialist/atheist. Lol, what is there to discuss?

 

[Thumb]

They don't want to terminate my account..I guess they see this forum slowly dieing and they need anyone they can to post..the politics/religion forum has declined in traffic in the last 2 yrs,, it should be called michump forum..pretty said. I come around some, but frankly there isn't much on here to actually discuss. The posters who remain are socialist/atheist. Lol, what is there to discuss?

Who is this "they" you speak of?

And LOL @ "terminate my account"

As far as the board being dead, nah it's as active as ever. And not all the posters are socialist/atheist, you could have a nice round-table discussion with zyxt and spartanchump, then afterwards maybe you three could see if you can figure out how to change a lightbulb. Fun times all around.

 

[Spartanmack]

It's tough to write laws that are always fair. I'd expect companies to be strategic, but it seems like your options should be limited to the nations where you are actually doing stuff with some proportion to the level of activity you have there. One of the things taxes pay for is infrastructure for the societies that you either manufacture in or sell to. If the Cayman's haven't built a society that can really contribute to your enterprise in a physical way, it doesn't seem right that they should benefit from being a legal passthrough for money. I'm not blaming the companies as much as the nations that benefit from creating tax shelters. It feels like they are getting something for nothing.

But companies that do business in the US pay US taxes on the income they generate in the US. By changing their domicile and shifting operation to a lower cost tax jurisdiction they're lowering their US tax base and avoiding are the punitive taxes paid on earnings sourced outside the US - it's what they're supposed to do as good stewards of capital for their shareholders. Again, this is just more reason to restructure the tax code to more consumption based taxes. Cut corporate taxes to zero or near zero, reduce income tax and instead tax gasoline, roads, bridges and tunnels - institute a national sales tax, etc. Consumption based taxes more directly reflect payment for the resources people use and consume not to mention, they're much harder to evade. Also, I don't really see how the Cayman's are getting something for nothing since they don't have any corporate tax at all - what are they getting? And as for countries with significant infrastructure, it makes sense for them to charge less in taxes and create an arbitrage opportunity that will attract companies from higher tax jurisdictions rather than make them flee. Every one of michturd's ideas presented here is stupid. They're nearly impossible to implement and even harder to enforce and they make no economic sense - it's as if they were thought up by a first grader who ran a failed lemonade stand.

 

[sggatecl]

They don't want to terminate my account..I guess they see this forum slowly dieing and they need anyone they can to post..the politics/religion forum has declined in traffic in the last 2 yrs,, it should be called michump forum..pretty said. I come around some, but frankly there isn't much on here to actually discuss. The posters who remain are socialist/atheist. Lol, what is there to discuss?

Who is this "they" you speak of?

And LOL @ "terminate my account"

As far as the board being dead, nah it's as active as ever. And not all the posters are socialist/atheist, you could have a nice round-table discussion with zyxt and spartanchump, then afterwards maybe you three could see if you can figure out how to change a lightbulb. Fun times all around.

I try to participate sometimes but I feel like I'm stuck in a perpetual game of monkey in the middle with the left/right.

 

[kalinecountry]

With the utmost respect to all; I think we have all said or done things in real life or on a message board forum we have regretted. I was hoping that time passing would end alot of the past bitterness, and move on.
By not moving on nobody wins, everybody loses.

 

[tigermud]

Not a socialist/atheist either but I can see why you say what you say when scanning through the discussions here. I also don't participate that much to this here politics board in part because it takes too long for me to type out long messages on the tablet, constantly battling typo's and auto corrections, it gets difficult, have to use the old traditional quaint box with the larger keyboard to type out anything long.

Anyway, hey I've heard it said recently that in part, the Geo engineering has lead to 31% less sunlight from reaching the surface. If this is true, it may explain some of the national mood and overall bitterness, hate, easily agitated persona we see all around us here and elsewhere, as sunlight is a natural source of Vitamin D, reduction of it, leads to nothing good.

To help combat the side effects on the human psyche from all the geo engineering, take Vitamin D supplementation, good old fashion exercise doesn't hurt either.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Also, I don't really see how the Cayman's are getting something for nothing since they don't have any corporate tax at all - what are they getting?

Financial services generated CI$ 1.2 billion in GDP in 2007, including direct, indirect, and induced impacts. This represents 55% of the Cayman economy based on the latest ESO estimates of total GDP.

http://www.cifaa.org.ky/files/Cayman Islands Financial Services Industry Economic Impact Study.pdf

 

[Gulo Blue]

But companies that do business in the US pay US taxes on the income they generate in the US. By changing their domicile and shifting operation to a lower cost tax jurisdiction they're lowering their US tax base and avoiding are the punitive taxes paid on earnings sourced outside the US - it's what they're supposed to do as good stewards of capital for their shareholders.

I don't have a problem with this. If this was all it was, I wouldn't be complaining. If they're actually shifting operations, not just a holding company. I'm not going to be too philosophically rigid on what fraction of taxes are paid where value is added vs where it is sold, but it shouldn't be paid (or avoided altogether) in places where nothing happens.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Some of these ideas are good to a degree, but become bad if you go too far. There should be pressure to keep taxes low, but not to the degree where we'd have incentive to short-change infrastructure to the point of impacting safety. We should compete to be the cheapest in places where public safety is on the line. ...and we do have a problem there. That's when we know we've gone too far.

 

[Spartanmack]

http://www.cifaa.org.ky/files/Cayman Islands Financial Services Industry Economic Impact Study.pdf

That's US$1.46B but it's not even worth talking about. It's a smart move by the Cayman's to create the incentive for Companies to relocate there. I don't know what the total income tax companies avoid - it's certainly greater than than the $1.46B GDP bump the Caymans get but it should be pointed out that even if the Cayman tax arb didn't exist, those companies would look at Ireland and other lower tax jurisdictions rather than having more of their owners money confiscated by the punitive corporate tax rates in the US.

 

[Gulo Blue]

That's US$1.46B but it's not even worth talking about. It's a smart move by the Cayman's to create the incentive for Companies to relocate there. I don't know what the total income tax companies avoid - it's certainly greater than than the $1.46B GDP bump the Caymans get but it should be pointed out that even if the Cayman tax arb didn't exist, those companies would look at Ireland and other lower tax jurisdictions rather than having more of their owners money confiscated by the punitive corporate tax rates in the US.

A small amount to the US is big relative to their economy, that's why this works. If I could set up a tax haven that got a company out of a mountain of taxes and I only made a few million, it would be a pretty great deal for me.