Raburn....

[Mitchrapp]

Mitch[/color]]Jim, you completely missed the point Bob made about vs RHP. He's a 200 at bat guy, against LHP but he should stay away from RHP.

I'm not missing the point. I get that he hates Raburn and will ignore black and white factual numbers. Fine by me. I'm fully prepared for another year of irrational Raburn hate, may as well start it in March.

You just refuse to look at his numbers against RHP like he's your cousin. Besides telling us that we hate him so we rag on him, why is it you believe he deserves a gig against RHP. I think you should change your name, not worthy of Jim Rice.

 

[jimrice]

Mitch[/color]]

I'm not missing the point. I get that he hates Raburn and will ignore black and white factual numbers. Fine by me. I'm fully prepared for another year of irrational Raburn hate, may as well start it in March.

You just refuse to look at his numbers against RHP like he's your cousin. Besides telling us that we hate him so we rag on him, why is it you believe he deserves a gig against RHP. I think you should change your name, not worthy of Jim Rice.

Where have I said he should play verses righties? Where have I said he should play second base at all? You're inventing things to argue about, as I have never said any such things.

I've only made the point that Raburn's overall numbers are better and they are. Simple enough, even for you to understand.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Mitch[/color]]

You just refuse to look at his numbers against RHP like he's your cousin. Besides telling us that we hate him so we rag on him, why is it you believe he deserves a gig against RHP. I think you should change your name, not worthy of Jim Rice.

Where have I said he should play verses righties? Where have I said he should play second base at all? You're inventing things to argue about, as I have never said any such things.

I've only made the point that Raburn's overall numbers are better and they are. Simple enough, even for you to understand.

Because you keep up with the same argument, we hate Raburn just to hate. Ever thought we dislike him because he's not good for big parts of the season? I'm calling you Devi Cruz from now on..

 

[jimrice]

Mitch[/color]]

Where have I said he should play verses righties? Where have I said he should play second base at all? You're inventing things to argue about, as I have never said any such things.

I've only made the point that Raburn's overall numbers are better and they are. Simple enough, even for you to understand.

Because you keep up with the same argument, we hate Raburn just to hate. Ever thought we dislike him because he's not good for big parts of the season? I'm calling you Devi Cruz from now on..

Take a look at Peralta's numbers first half/second half.

Irrational.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Mitch[/color]]

Because you keep up with the same argument, we hate Raburn just to hate. Ever thought we dislike him because he's not good for big parts of the season? I'm calling you Devi Cruz from now on..

Take a look at Peralta's numbers first half/second half.

Irrational.

Devi, That's fine. I don't argue with that but don't dismiss our dislike for someone who can't hit against RHP just because he might be better than someone else . And throw out the "You all just hate him".

 

[biggunsbob]

I think you are ignoring his numbers.. Lifetime RHP .268/.311/420 is not worth putting in the field verses RHP very often. And last year it was a lot worse.
.245/.283/.398.

His numbers only got better last year when he played verses LHP down the stretch, and we can't keep waiting till july for him to wake up.. I don't hate him I just want him batting only verses LHP, and I really don't want him in the field at all. Even you can admit he is a hatchet in the field...

 

[spockmaster]

if leyland had even a quarter of a functioning brain, Raburn would be the starting LF and Young would NEVER see the field. raburn isnt all that bad in the OF, but he's a menace in the IF. Hes probably still better at 2nd though than Young is in the OF. Its like Leyland is purposely trying to field the worst possible defense he can.

 

[Mitchrapp]

if leyland had even a quarter of a functioning brain, Raburn would be the starting LF and Young would NEVER see the field. raburn isnt all that bad in the OF, but he's a menace in the IF. Hes probably still better at 2nd though than Young is in the OF. Its like Leyland is purposely trying to field the worst possible defense he can.

I agree. And if Raburn hits he's at 2B. That's a brutal IF defense. Its AJ and the 6 misfits.

 

[turok]

They are what they are...and few if any MLB teams can boast of having mostly stellar defense, pitching, AND offense. All are significantly lacking somewhere amongst the three disciplines, if not a few everywhere. But once the Tigers 25 man roster is finalized, and the team goes north for the season, I will root as hard for the Ryan Raburns to do well @ the plate, as well as on the field, as much as I will for the Prince Fielders. When they err on the field, and/or slump @ the plate, I will display my dismay and/or concern for them in some manner, like I always have..muaahaha!!

 

[Mitchrapp]

We all do that Turok.

 

[tigermud]

If I recall correctly he had a good spring last year also, then soon as the season starts he went right back into the 1st half funk pattern, if he could figure out how to not do that we might have something.

 

[turok]

Right, but there will be many lineups that Leyland fills out during the coming season that will displease some/many of us. Since we fans do not intimately know any of the Tigers players, we therefor cannot know all of the reasons why he is picking out one player over another, esp when at oft-times it seems to be the completely wrong move to make. The Tigers' players are of course, not automatons, they have aches, pains, illnesses, egos, and morales that need to be stroked, built-up and addressed, and we are not very often told about them beforehand, if even permitted to be privy to them, ever.

 

[mjsb2]

Mitch[/color]]Jim, you completely missed the point Bob made about vs RHP. He's a 200 at bat guy, against LHP but he should stay away from RHP.

It's not even all right handers though.

Raburn is an effective hitter against everybody except for RH power pitchers.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Mitch[/color]]Jim, you completely missed the point Bob made about vs RHP. He's a 200 at bat guy, against LHP but he should stay away from RHP.

It's not even all right handers though.

Raburn is an effective hitter against everybody except for RH power pitchers.

You might be right. All I know is I'd feel better if he was part of a platoon but at the moment not sure our LH, Dirks, is up to it.

 

[biggunsbob]

Can we just platoon him somehow? He could really help this team if he only played verses LHP. Is it to much to ask to at least try and platoon him... Maybe if Jimmy Smokes would just play him verses LHP to start the season he may get hot right off the bat.. And he is the defensive replacement for Young... Yikes...

 

[Mitchrapp]

biggunsbob[/color]]Can we just platoon him somehow? He could really help this team if he only played verses LHP. Is it to much to ask to at least try and platoon him... Maybe if Jimmy Smokes would just play him verses LHP to start the season he may get hot right off the bat.. And he is the defensive replacement for Young... Yikes...

Who would be the other half, Dirks? Not sure he could hit RHP any better. I agree that Raburn has potential but disagree with others (Devi) who say most average hitters are inconsistent like Raburn. Raburn seems to have long stretches of crap, not 2-3 weeks but 2-3 months.

 

[Rebbiv]

Mitch[/color]]
[quote="biggunsbob":mj4ragxh]Can we just platoon him somehow? He could really help this team if he only played verses LHP. Is it to much to ask to at least try and platoon him... Maybe if Jimmy Smokes would just play him verses LHP to start the season he may get hot right off the bat.. And he is the defensive replacement for Young... Yikes...

Who would be the other half, Dirks? Not sure he could hit RHP any better. I agree that Raburn has potential but disagree with others (Devi) who say most average hitters are inconsistent like Raburn. Raburn seems to have long stretches of crap, not 2-3 weeks but 2-3 months. [/quote:mj4ragxh]


Career Monthly Averages:

Mar/Apr = .746 OPS
May = .465 OPS
Jun = .751 OPS
Jul = .776 OPS
Aug = .852 OPS
Sep/Oct = .891 OPS

Raburn has acceptable stats in all months except May. While his stats in August and September are really good, they shouldn't be what you compare the rest of the months to.

Having a .731 Career OPS vs RHP is not BAD. It just isn't what you would like from a full time player. The average OPS for a MLB 2B over the last 3 years is .727. So, Raburn is more than league average offensively at 2B, even if he hit full time versus RHP.

Next...the average MLB 2B had 780 Total Chances in 162 games last year. That comes to 4.81 RF (chances per game). Raburn average 4.51 last year, 5.35 in 2010 and 4.71 for his career.

So, if he played all 162 games at 2B, Raburn would have 763 Total Chances (17 less than average). He would also average 34 errors versus the average of 12 errors.

Now, 22 errors plus 17 less chances does not necessarily equate to 39 additional runs, because not ever error results in a run, nor does all missed chances equate to a run. Sabermatically (used in WAR), 10 runs = a win. So, assuming Raburn did cost an additional 39 runs in a full 162 games, that comes to 3.9 wins for defense. Highly unlikely he would play 162 games at 2B and again, not all the 39 would mean additional runs, maybe half.

IMHO, many people are overstating the defensively liability Raburn causes at 2B. I will admit personally, I would rather have him play LF over Young. But, given a choice between Santiago, Inge and Raburn, I would start Raburn most games at 2B.

And just like most people overstate his lack of defense at 2B, so too people overstate Raburn's inability to hit in the first half or against RHP. Certainly his first half woe exists and most sabermatics cannot explain. I believe Turok posted the FanGraph's article.

Furthermore, IMHO, there are two far worse issues to debate than Raburn and 2B. It would be Inge having any amount of playing time and Young starting most games in LF.

FYI...last 3 years for D. Young against RHP:

.303 OBP .415 SLG .718 OPS

vs Raburn

.310 OBP .424 SLG .734 OPS

 

[jdeb]

Mitch[/color]]

Who would be the other half, Dirks? Not sure he could hit RHP any better. I agree that Raburn has potential but disagree with others (Devi) who say most average hitters are inconsistent like Raburn. Raburn seems to have long stretches of crap, not 2-3 weeks but 2-3 months.

Career Monthly Averages:

Mar/Apr = .746 OPS
May = .465 OPS
Jun = .751 OPS
Jul = .776 OPS
Aug = .852 OPS
Sep/Oct = .891 OPS

Raburn has acceptable stats in all months except May. While his stats in August and September are really good, they shouldn't be what you compare the rest of the months to.

Having a .731 Career OPS vs RHP is not BAD. It just isn't what you would like from a full time player. The average OPS for a MLB 2B over the last 3 years is .727. So, Raburn is more than league average offensively at 2B, even if he hit full time versus RHP.

Next...the average MLB 2B had 780 Total Chances in 162 games last year. That comes to 4.81 RF (chances per game). Raburn average 4.51 last year, 5.35 in 2010 and 4.71 for his career.

So, if he played all 162 games at 2B, Raburn would have 763 Total Chances (17 less than average). He would also average 34 errors versus the average of 12 errors.

Now, 22 errors plus 17 less chances does not necessarily equate to 39 additional runs, because not ever error results in a run, nor does all missed chances equate to a run. Sabermatically (used in WAR), 10 runs = a win. So, assuming Raburn did cost an additional 39 runs in a full 162 games, that comes to 3.9 wins for defense. Highly unlikely he would play 162 games at 2B and again, not all the 39 would mean additional runs, maybe half.

IMHO, many people are overstating the defensively liability Raburn causes at 2B. I will admit personally, I would rather have him play LF over Young. But, given a choice between Santiago, Inge and Raburn, I would start Raburn most games at 2B.

And just like most people overstate his lack of defense at 2B, so too people overstate Raburn's inability to hit in the first half or against RHP. Certainly his first half woe exists and most sabermatics cannot explain. I believe Turok posted the FanGraph's article.

Furthermore, IMHO, there are two far worse issues to debate than Raburn and 2B. It would be Inge having any amount of playing time and Young starting most games in LF.

FYI...last 3 years for D. Young against RHP:

.303 OBP .415 SLG .718 OPS

vs Raburn

.310 OBP .424 SLG .734 OPS

That is one impressive post. You have to be one of the most intelligent posters I have ever read, incredible.

I can not stand Raburn defensively probably because when makes an error, he looks like the last kid picked. Anyway, great post.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Real facts aside, I still want him platooning

 

[Thumb]

Raburn does not worry me much, you basically know what to expect from him.

Jackson, Young, Boesch, Avila and Peralta I'm more concerned with.

Will Ajax get better at making contact? Will Delmon refuse to draw a walk or 2 and generally suck as usual? Can Boesch maintain production for longer than 3 months? Will Avila and Peralta come close to their 2011 numbers?

And the BIG ONE: Will Brandon POS Inge get on the roster?