Racial Bias

[Gulo Blue]

Lol waiting for someone to call you a racist.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Having 2 parents at home is a big predictor of future success, but it's far from everything and certainly not enough to explain away racial inequality.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html

As this chart shows, a black man raised by two parents together in the 90th percentile ? making around $140,000 a year ? earns about the same in adulthood as a white man raised by a single mother making $60,000 alone.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Here's the actual paper:
http://www.equality-of-opportunity.org/assets/documents/race_paper.pdf

 

[Spartanmack]

I don't think racial discrimination is enough to explain away the difference either. If it's racism, then why does this racial inequality only affect boys? As the study shows "no such income gap exists between black and white women raised in similar households." The study actually indicates black women earn slightly MORE than white women conditional on parent income" and "there is little or no gap in wage rates or hours of work between black and white women." and "Black women have higher college attendance rates than white men, conditional on parent income." This tends to undercut the Times' conclusion and also undercuts the popular assumption that black women are doubly victimized facing both racial discrimination and sexism.

The study also indicates gaps between white and Hispanics are converging and Asians actually earn more than whites "raised a the same income level." The Times doesn't seem to indicate that gap is based on discrimination but the white/black differences are.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I don't think racial discrimination is enough to explain away the difference either. If it's racism, then why does this racial inequality only affect boys? As the study shows "no such income gap exists between black and white women raised in similar households." The study actually indicates black women earn slightly MORE than white women conditional on parent income" and "there is little or no gap in wage rates or hours of work between black and white women." and "Black women have higher college attendance rates than white men, conditional on parent income." This tends to undercut the Times' conclusion and also undercuts the popular assumption that black women are doubly victimized facing both racial discrimination and sexism.

The study also indicates gaps between white and Hispanics are converging and Asians actually earn more than whites "raised a the same income level." The Times doesn't seem to indicate that gap is based on discrimination but the white/black differences are.

Inequality controlled for wealth being different in different cases and the lack of assumed double discrimination doesn't undercut the premise. Why do you think it does? Different races being impacted differently is commonly known. Old news.

But that comparison of black men with 2 parents making $140,000 to white boys with 2 parents making $60,000, that's one heck of a data point, don't you think?

 

[Michchamp]

Inequality controlled for wealth being different in different cases and the lack of assumed double discrimination doesn't undercut the premise. Why do you think it does? Different races being impacted differently is commonly known. Old news.

But that comparison of black men with 2 parents making $140,000 to white boys with 2 parents making $60,000, that's one heck of a data point, don't you think?

hold on he's moving the goalposts, and googling the name of the NBER article again to see if Breitbart, AEI, CPAC or some other goons wrote up talking points against it he can cut and paste here.

 

[Gulo Blue]

hold on he's moving the goalposts, and googling the name of the NBER article again to see if Breitbart, AEI, CPAC or some other goons wrote up talking points against it he can cut and paste here.

I don't think moving the goalposts is really a thing here. Having one or two parents raise you is a big deal. Racial discrimination is a big deal. The 8th graphic, about 60% through the NYTimes article compares these two things for men and you can see that race is a MUCH BIGGER factor than the number of parents. We didn't have this data point before.

Don't know why I can't upload a decent looking picture. The picture I uploaded is fine.

 

[Michchamp]

I don't think moving the goalposts is really a thing here. ...

Oh you don't, eh?!?

Well if this country is racist, explain to me then why so many African Americans are in the NBA.

Explain why there are so many black artists on the current Billboard Top 100.

you know Asian Americans have higher average incomes than Whites, which is totally apt since their experience here in this country is the same as Blacks. how is that possible if whites are racist?

hurrr what does your study say about all those?

 

[tinselwolverine]

Oh you don't, eh?!?

Well if this country is racist, explain to me then why so many African Americans are in the NBA.

The goalposts in the NBA are anchored from above, making them incredibly hard to move.

 

[Michchamp]

The goalposts in the NBA are anchored from above, making them incredibly hard to move.

no they're adjustable. In the early days, NBA officials would keep African Americans from dunking by hitting them with the backboard when they went up.

Now that only happens by accident:

 

[Spartanmack]

Inequality controlled for wealth being different in different cases and the lack of assumed double discrimination doesn't undercut the premise. Why do you think it does? Different races being impacted differently is commonly known. Old news.

But that comparison of black men with 2 parents making $140,000 to white boys with 2 parents making $60,000, that's one heck of a data point, don't you think?

it most certainly undercuts the claim of racial discrimination and it's not a lack of double discrmantion among black women, it's a lack of single discrimination against black women - remember the gender pay gap myth has been debunked.

it's an interesting data point but it doesn't leave discrimination as the only explanation nor does it elimante behavior as a factor.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Oh you don't, eh?!?

Well if this country is racist, explain to me then why so many African Americans are in the NBA.

Explain why there are so many black artists on the current Billboard Top 100.

you know Asian Americans have higher average incomes than Whites, which is totally apt since their experience here in this country is the same as Blacks. how is that possible if whites are racist?

hurrr what does your study say about all those?

I think it's counterproductive to blame it on racism. The majority of people exhibit some amount of racial and/or gender bias. If you keep thinking the problem is racists, then I think you miss the actual source of the inequality.

 

[Michchamp]

it's an interesting data point but it doesn't leave discrimination as the only explanation nor does it elimante behavior as a factor.

It's probably ANYTHING other than racism, right?

 

[Gulo Blue]

it most certainly undercuts the claim of racial discrimination and it's not a lack of double discrmantion among black women, it's a lack of single discrimination against black women - remember the gender pay gap myth has been debunked.

it's an interesting data point but it doesn't leave discrimination as the only explanation nor does it elimante behavior as a factor.

What? What's your theory then? Explain this data.

 

[Michchamp]

I think it's counterproductive to blame it on racism. The majority of people exhibit some amount of racial and/or gender bias. If you keep thinking the problem is racists, then I think you miss the actual source of the inequality.

I agree with you, however, it is racism, and the legacy of past racism that's to blame. To call it anything else provides an excuse to eliminate and prevent federal solutions to the problem from being implemented, as the GOP will use marginal reasons (like single parent households, laziness, or "a lack of family values") to put the blame on blacks themselves.

I get that not only the guys in hoods, waving Confederate flags, and neo-nazis are the problem.

 

[Spartanmack]

I don't think moving the goalposts is really a thing here. Having one or two parents raise you is a big deal. Racial discrimination is a big deal. The 8th graphic, about 60% through the NYTimes article compares these two things for men and you can see that race is a MUCH BIGGER factor than the number of parents. We didn't have this data point before.

Don't know why I can't upload a decent looking picture. The picture I uploaded is fine.

shhhh, if he can't say "he's moving the goalposts. Breibart. Fox News." then he'll never have anything to post.

 

[Spartanmack]

Oh you don't, eh?!?

Well if this country is racist, explain to me then why so many African Americans are in the NBA.

Explain why there are so many black artists on the current Billboard Top 100.

you know Asian Americans have higher average incomes than Whites, which is totally apt since their experience here in this country is the same as Blacks. how is that possible if whites are racist?

hurrr what does your study say about all those?

here's a list of things nobody ever says yet they keep getting trotted by a certain moron as proof that the US is fundamentally racist.

 

[Gulo Blue]

shhhh, if he can't say "he's moving the goalposts. Breibart. Fox News." then he'll never have anything to post.

Well, part of it is I don't think you have room to move the goalposts here. The 2 parent thing was your main go-to argument to explain inequality as something other than bias. This study shows that inequality between boys is still dramatic "even if they grow up in two-parent families with comparable incomes, education, and wealth, live on the same city block, and attend the same school". I'm curious to see how you react to this since you don't seem to be shifting your take in response to this new data, but I think any attempt to move the goalpost would be so transparent, you'd know nobody would take you seriously if you posted it.

 

[Spartanmack]

What? What's your theory then? Explain this data.

Why? I can't question a conclusion without first proving it's something else? That's ridiculous. Why do I need an explanation when there is clear evidence in the study contradicting the conclusions of the researchers? I'm not buying your theory if it's simply racism because it's not impacting black women AT ALL and the gap for Hispanics is narrowing - the study projects convergence within a few generations. So now America is only fundamentally racist against black men?

The study indicated that ?Black men raised in the top 1 percent ? by millionaires ? were as likely to be incarcerated as white men raised in households earning about $36,000? but it also finds that the relationship between racism in a given area and ?incarceration rates is not statistically significant."

Personally, I think it's more complicated and can't be explained by any one factor.

 

[Gulo Blue]

no, my main go to argument had 3 factors, not 1 so I guess it's you who is moving the goal posts or is that reframing the argument or possibly you're just taking a page out of mc's book and putting words in my mouth and then arguing against them. So maybe I should stop taking you seriously and lump you in with your monkey boy.

What are the other 2?
Well, the remaining 2.