Racial Bias

[Polish-Hammer]

But, Elon Musk is Afrikan Amerikan.

 

[tomdalton22]

But, Elon Musk is Afrikan Amerikan.

your avatar is disturbing :hmm:

 

[tinselwolverine]

your avatar is disturbing :hmm:

It looks like Donald Trump's America wearing an adult diaper.

 

[Michchamp]

But, Elon Musk is Afrikan Amerikan.

Ironic!

There was some criticism of Barack Obama being considered "African American," not because he was half white, but because his father came from Africa, and was not descended from American slaves.

The distinction didn't matter to American racists though. He was just a black guy to them.

Obama basically made the same point himself in an interview when he said when he hails a cab, he looks black and is going to be considered black. which is true.

He'd be the victim of the sort of "personal bias" racism that is prevalent in America, which Gulo mentioned. but to the point of those who criticised his upbringing, having grown up with his white mother and grandparents, he never had to endure the "systemic racism" in this country: they didn't have trouble getting a mortgage and having a home, he didn't face oppressive police patrols and harassment, he attended good schools that were not neglected or underfunded by the state, etc. and his ancestors didn't start out poor because of the legacy of slavery, segregation, job discrimination, redlining, racial violence, etc.

 

[Gulo Blue]

In response to questions asked about this piece, the authors ran a Q&A and added some more charts and released a tool that allows you to select two groups and compare how they fared.

The tool is at the bottom of this link:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/27/upshot/make-your-own-mobility-animation.html

The Q&A is here:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...questions-about-race-gender-and-mobility.html

 

[tinselwolverine]

Ironic!

There was some criticism of Barack Obama being considered "African American," not because he was half white, but because his father came from Africa, and was not descended from American slaves.

The distinction didn't matter to American racists though. He was just a black guy to them.

Obama basically made the same point himself in an interview when he said when he hails a cab, he looks black and is going to be considered black. which is true.

When Obama walks on the moon in street clothes or hits a home run for the White Sox, he also looks black.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Here are some links to studies about this:

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/an_economic_analysis_of_acting_white.pdf

John Ogbu's Wikipedia page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ogbu

It looks to me that this paper is just a model. A theory and a math model that shows what data would look like if this theory were correct. The next step would be to go find a way to get data to test this theory.

 

[Michchamp]

Okay... so at least this city in America is officially racist: Griffin, Georgia establishes a "Confederate History Month" and invited a former (white) city councilman to the meeting, where he dropped N-bombs, bragged about being white trash (probably true, but not something to brag about), and said the Civil War wasn't fought over slavery (that is not true at all). (link).

When a black councilman complained, the board chairman (white, of course) cut him off and asked the guy dropping n-bombs to continue.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Ironic!

There was some criticism of Barack Obama being considered "African American," not because he was half white, but because his father came from Africa, and was not descended from American slaves.

The distinction didn't matter to American racists though. He was just a black guy to them.

Obama basically made the same point himself in an interview when he said when he hails a cab, he looks black and is going to be considered black. which is true.

He'd be the victim of the sort of "personal bias" racism that is prevalent in America, which Gulo mentioned. but to the point of those who criticised his upbringing, having grown up with his white mother and grandparents, he never had to endure the "systemic racism" in this country: they didn't have trouble getting a mortgage and having a home, he didn't face oppressive police patrols and harassment, he attended good schools that were not neglected or underfunded by the state, etc. and his ancestors didn't start out poor because of the legacy of slavery, segregation, job discrimination, redlining, racial violence, etc.

So...you're saying Toni Morrison is right?

That Clinton is the first and only black president?

 

[Michchamp]

So...you're saying Toni Morrison is right?

That Clinton is the first and only black president?

no. I'm just saying what I'm saying.

I don't really know why Chris Rock (I think?) said Bill was the first black president. the Clintons were pretty shitty on race. They coined the whole "super-predator" gimmick to pander to white racists.

 

[tinselwolverine]

no. I'm just saying what I'm saying.

I don't really know why Chris Rock (I think?) said Bill was the first black president. the Clintons were pretty shitty on race. They coined the whole "super-predator" gimmick to pander to white racists.

Novelist, social commentator and academic Toni Morrison is credited to have been the person who originated that.

I've never heard anything about that being attributed to Chris Rock.

 

[Michchamp]

I've read some of her work. not a big fan, for what it's worth.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Heard something on the radio in an interview about the Flint water crisis. There was a statistic looking at the places that were managed by a state government appointed emergency city manager. 50% of African American residents in Michigan lived under an emergency manager. 2% of white residents lived under an emergency manager.

 

[Michchamp]

Heard something on the radio in an interview about the Flint water crisis. There was a statistic looking at the places that were managed by a state government appointed emergency city manager. 50% of African American residents in Michigan lived under an emergency manager. 2% of white residents lived under an emergency manager.

sure that seems bad to you and me. and sure seems like statistically significant evidence of systemic, state-sponsored racism.

But by being open-minded and willing to listen to others, I've learned a few things from people who post here and share different viewpoints than we do:

1) if something affects a race of people negatively, it's just a coincidence. Even slavery or Jim Crow laws. It is just a coincidence those things affected people of African descent, not racism.

2) if something affects geographic areas that are majority African American, that's because those areas are poor, crime-infested, and mismanaged by choice. And it wouldn't be racist to say that "those people" are more likely to choose to be criminals, lazy, or incompetent. that's just a fact. facts can't be racist.

3) If you start a serious enquiry as to why poverty, high unemployment, and high incarceration rates persist against African Americans, and your conclusion is anything other than "it's just a coincidence that's how they are" then you're the REAL racist here because white Conservative guys say so.

 

[Gulo Blue]

sure that seems bad to you and me. and sure seems like statistically significant evidence of systemic, state-sponsored racism.

But by being open-minded and willing to listen to others, I've learned a few things from people who post here and share different viewpoints than we do:

1) if something affects a race of people negatively, it's just a coincidence. Even slavery or Jim Crow laws. It is just a coincidence those things affected people of African descent, not racism.

2) if something affects geographic areas that are majority African American, that's because those areas are poor, crime-infested, and mismanaged by choice. And it wouldn't be racist to say that "those people" are more likely to choose to be criminals, lazy, or incompetent. that's just a fact. facts can't be racist.

3) If you start a serious enquiry as to why poverty, high unemployment, and high incarceration rates persist against African Americans, and your conclusion is anything other than "it's just a coincidence that's how they are" then you're the REAL racist here because white Conservative guys say so.

I wish there was a good way to explore what would happen if you put adult white people in a hypothetical scenario, where they would live their lives over in a family with similar family members and wealth, in a similarly wealthy neighborhood (if such a thing exists) but all black. In that scenario, how much money would it take to get them to their current lifestyle and wealth as a white person? More simply put: what was the dollar value of being white over the course of their life? It's a tough question with too much uncertainty. But if you've looked at half the things I've posted in this thread and still answer some small amount, I mean that defies reason.


The "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" idiom is sort of incredible, in that it describes a physically impossible task and the meaning dramatically changed through the years similarly to how literally now is sometimes used to mean figuratively.

 

[tomdalton22]

sure that seems bad to you and me. and sure seems like statistically significant evidence of systemic, state-sponsored racism.

But by being open-minded and willing to listen to others, I've learned a few things from people who post here and share different viewpoints than we do:

1) if something affects a race of people negatively, it's just a coincidence. Even slavery or Jim Crow laws. It is just a coincidence those things affected people of African descent, not racism.

2) if something affects geographic areas that are majority African American, that's because those areas are poor, crime-infested, and mismanaged by choice. And it wouldn't be racist to say that "those people" are more likely to choose to be criminals, lazy, or incompetent. that's just a fact. facts can't be racist.

3) If you start a serious enquiry as to why poverty, high unemployment, and high incarceration rates persist against African Americans, and your conclusion is anything other than "it's just a coincidence that's how they are" then you're the REAL racist here because white Conservative guys say so.

how is it state-sponsored racism?

 

[Gulo Blue]

how is it state-sponsored racism?

It would be more accurate to call it institutional racial discrimination, when half of the people of one race don't get to be led by their elected leaders while only 2% of the majority face that situation. Some people don't distinguish between racism and racial discrimination because too many of the people that do voice that distinction do it to justify the discrimination as not racist in motivation.

 

[tomdalton22]

It would be more accurate to call it institutional racial discrimination, when half of the people of one race don't get to be led by their elected leaders while only 2% of the majority face that situation. Some people don't distinguish between racism and racial discrimination because too many of the people that do voice that distinction do it to justify the discrimination as not racist in motivation.

Isn't the reason the state took over because their elected leaders failed them?

 

[Gulo Blue]

Isn't the reason the state took over because their elected leaders failed them?

Would that matter? The fact is that this undesirable condition overwhelmingly disproportionally affects blacks. No matter what the initial motivation was, this is one more thing, similar to the others in this thread, that contributes to the higher levels of poverty of black Americans, which leads to countless other problems.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I should have included in post 77, motivation is precisely the distinction I'm pointing to between racism and racial discrimination.