Red Wings 2 Senators1 shootout Final

[Mitchrapp]

It's always a bit relative, but 8 is over 25% of our total. That's significant, though easy to miss watching at game speed. Also, we've now given up 38 and 39 shots in our first two games. It almost doesn't matter the quality, those are terrible numbers.

Also, it's not as simple as looking outplayed (and sorry if that sounds condescending, I really don't mean it to be). The defense cannot seem to suppress shots. Every time the opponent gets into our zone, they are able to put a shot on net (often multiple times). That's a lack of awareness and positioning, it means the defense is leaving clean lanes to the goal consistently. Even if they are easy shots to stop the first time, it still means more rebounds, more chance for redirects, and more chances for flukes. It's not realistic to expect Howard and Mrazek to stand on their heads every night.

I get what you're saying but I guess I watch like I did when I was a kid .. I didn't worry about SOG or bad defense just if we won or loss and did I have fun..

Sometimes it can be more fun when the team isn't expected to be good. Less expectations and just enjoy hockey. Nonetheless, it sure beats a loss when we had 25% more shots.

 

[biggunsbob]

Less expectations .. I like that .

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

I get what you're saying but I guess I watch like I did when I was a kid .. I didn't worry about SOG or bad defense just if we won or loss and did I have fun..

Sometimes it can be more fun when the team isn't expected to be good. Less expectations and just enjoy hockey. Nonetheless, it sure beats a loss when we had 25% more shots.

The win is always better. I know when I'm actually at the games I don't care about (our even pay attention to) the numbers.

I just really want this team to be good again, to start the next 25 year streak. It's only two games in, so the numbers could swing pretty rapidly to looking good. But right now, I'm just trying to brace myself for a season that might be a rerun.

 

[Polish-Hammer]

Shots aren't everything and quality of shots needs to be taken to account. The sens had many good chances to put it away, they got the iron so many times. Thankfully Howard played amazing. Way too many odd man rushes as well. Overall the game was pretty even, both teams had done for chances but the goalies played flawlessly.

I should point out one thing about shot suppression. It typically goes down to coaching preference if the tan is to try blocking everything. Most goalies will prefer to see the shots come then somebody screening him in an attempt to block it.

Ericsson (current whipping dog of the team) was a master at screening the goalie last season and accidentally deflecting pucks into his own net.

I have d post somewhere showing video of dk and big e deflecting or shooting the puck into their own net (about 5-6 from 3 consecutive games in January/February).

https://youtu.be/ihcvr6kPTGI

 

[Polish-Hammer]

Failed twice at LAX, so gonna try at home 12 hours later.

Lets analyze the Wings Sharks game from early January 2017.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSmTzJ_3Hxo

1-0 Goal for Detroit: Deflection off defender's skate.
1-1 Goal for San Jose: (3 man screen infront), double deflects off the wall and than Sheahan standing to the side of the screen.
1-2 Goal for San Jose: Marleau with perfect screen infront of the goalie.
1-3 Goal for San Jose: Note the deflection from DeKeyser's stick
1-4 Goal for San Jose: Pavelski perfect deflection
1-5: Goal for San Jose: Deflection from Ott than Boedker
2-6: Goal for San Jose: DeKeyser with a great deflection past Mrazek

Literally 7 of 8 goals were extremely difficult to stop for the keeper because of screens and deflections. Screens and deflections are the unintended consequences of shot suppression.

There is an old saying from Hasek, "Must see, must see!!"

A goalie will almost always prefer to see the shot instead of a defender screening or deflecting a shot.


There was a game few years back Washington vs Toronto. Toronto plan on PK was to keep a man on Ovie making it a 4-3 PP. The Caps being great as they are kept giving the puck to the point and shooting straight at keeper with no screen or deflection. Something like 8 point shots during the PP all stopped by the Toronto GK. Easiest 8 saves of the night, from the blue line with no screen or attempted deflection.

The most difficult saves are screens ( most rely on positioning and luck) and deflection (relying on position and extremely fast reflexes often once already in motion to stop original shot). Now combine the two and you have a goalie's nightmare.


There was more to this post but I can't recall it.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

I agree quality of shots matter, but to that point there's no indication that we are giving up more low quality shots in favor of fewer high quality shots. Both games saw a pretty noticeable amount of shots stopped by the post or Howard playing great.

Defense in hockey is all about angles, and our defenders (due to ability or age) just aren't very good. Ericsson is one of the worst, which is why he's in so many lowlight videos. There is a difference between getting your goalie space to see and leaving the corner of the net open because you are off your line to the puck.

But really, that could be more coaching. Deciding not to block a lot if shots isn't a bad strategy in itself. My bigger issue is how weakly we defend the zone. Opponents regularly waltz in unimpeded or with little resistance. Defensively we give up space for opponents to run their sets very easily. That generates shots, shots that didn't need to be available at all. If that's a coaching thing, it's stupid. If, as I suspect, it's a limitation of our defense corps, it's a big reason to get better defenders.

This is just an example, but imagine Lidstrom at the blue line and an opponent trying to take the zone with the puck on their stick. What was the likelihood that forward would be able to skate past Lidstrom, versus our current defenders? If the forward dumped the puck in, what was the chance an opponent would get to that puck before another red wing? There is a systemic problem where our defenders don't stop the puck well and the team doesn't defend cohesively.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I agree quality of shots matter, but to that point there's no indication that we are giving up more low quality shots in favor of fewer high quality shots. Both games saw a pretty noticeable amount of shots stopped by the post or Howard playing great.

Defense in hockey is all about angles, and our defenders (due to ability or age) just aren't very good. Ericsson is one of the worst, which is why he's in so many lowlight videos. There is a difference between getting your goalie space to see and leaving the corner of the net open because you are off your line to the puck.

But really, that could be more coaching. Deciding not to block a lot if shots isn't a bad strategy in itself. My bigger issue is how weakly we defend the zone. Opponents regularly waltz in unimpeded or with little resistance. Defensively we give up space for opponents to run their sets very easily. That generates shots, shots that didn't need to be available at all. If that's a coaching thing, it's stupid. If, as I suspect, it's a limitation of our defense corps, it's a big reason to get better defenders.

This is just an example, but imagine Lidstrom at the blue line and an opponent trying to take the zone with the puck on their stick. What was the likelihood that forward would be able to skate past Lidstrom, versus our current defenders? If the forward dumped the puck in, what was the chance an opponent would get to that puck before another red wing? There is a systemic problem where our defenders don't stop the puck well and the team doesn't defend cohesively.

Not sure it's a fair comparison using one of the best defenseman ever.. I get that Detroit doesn't have a top defense, I saw it last year. You just have to accept that fact and hope the rest of the team can overcome it..

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

Not sure it's a fair comparison using one of the best defenseman ever.. I get that Detroit doesn't have a top defense, I saw it last year. You just have to accept that fact and hope the rest of the team can overcome it..

Yeah, the comparison was just "what should happen" vs. "what actually happens." I used Lidstrom so the comparison would be easier to envision.

And I do accept that the defense is a weakness. But that's why I don't expect to keep holding opponents to 1.5 goals per game.