Report: Lions and Suh NOT close to a deal

[SouthOfMackinac]

I'd much prefer the Lions spent that kind of money on a more impactful position. I'm also curious to see if there are actually 3 teams that end up spending that much money on Fairley/McCoy/Suh.

We are on the same page here. Suh needs to make the Pro Bowl at LT and DT to justify his cap hit.

 

[tigermud]

I don't expect suh to stay I don't think he really likes detroit much

 

[cheeno]

I don't expect suh to stay I don't think he really likes detroit much

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ers-freedom-tweet-had-nothing-to-do-with-him/

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

I don't expect suh to stay I don't think he really likes detroit much

I think the crap he got over the car accident and the OTAs is ridiculous to him. He feels he's given back plenty and if we're not grateful enough then someone else will pay and love him. He's right.

 

[tomdalton22]

From John Clayton's "Mailbag" Q & A-

Q: How will teams with elite players from the old rookie wage scale address contract extensions? I believe Ndamukong Suh is making around $22 million. Obviously, that is far too much. If the Lions let Suh hit the market, would a team give him an Albert Haynesworth-type deal, or will players in his situation actually take pay cuts to the appropriate market value. Having Calvin Johnson, Matthew Stafford, and Suh taking up 55 percent of their cap obviously straps the Lions from building a team with depth.

Matt in Richmond, Virginia

A: The problem will be cleaned up for all teams within the next year or two. There are only 25 former first-round draft choices from the old system playing out their rookie contracts. Michael Crabtree is the only one left from the 2009 draft. Suh, who is a free agent next year, and the rest are from the 2010 class. The Suh situation is tough because the sides aren't close to a deal, which leaves the Lions tight against the cap this year. His salary is $12.55 million, and the rest is prorated signing bonus. Teams in free agency will try to sign him for about $13 million a year. We'll see if he can claim a bigger contract. He's in a great spot for leverage. The Lions can't franchise him next year because the number would be too high. If he can't get an extension in Detroit, he will be a huge player in the free-agent market.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

So is the argument here that we are afraid Suh will be overpaid, or that our cap structure isn't viable even with Suh at market value (~13 million per year)?

 

[tomdalton22]

So is the argument here that we are afraid Suh will be overpaid, or that our cap structure isn't viable even with Suh at market value (~13 million per year)?

Just about everything Clayton said in his response contradicts what LKP has said about the Lions / Suh situation.

 

[LKP]

Just about everything Clayton said in his response contradicts what LKP has said about the Lions / Suh situation.

Clayton actually said less per year than I was thinking. 13 million per the Lions can easily handle.

 

[tomdalton22]

Clayton actually said less per year than I was thinking. 13 million per the Lions can easily handle.

no...he said: "Teams in free agency will try to sign him for about $13 million a year. We'll see if he can claim a bigger contract. He's in a great spot for leverage"

 

[LKP]

no...he said: "Teams in free agency will try to sign him for about $13 million a year. We'll see if he can claim a bigger contract. He's in a great spot for leverage"

And I said he would get 14-15 million. It doesn't contradict anything I said. The Lions can handle that contract easily too. And if that is the set market value (13 mil), that is great leverage for the Lions. 22 million number has already been handled in 2014. Either they do the deal or don't. Franchising is known off the table so if Suh wants to stay he'll do a deal around market value.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

So is Suh worth keeping at 13-15 million per year? That question I'm asking in a vacuum. Is one of the best DTs (and D-linemen in general) worth 13 million per year?

Is there realistic optimism that we could replace Suh and improve talent elsewhere with 13 million in cap space? I don't think so, given the loss of Suh and Fairley would arguably turn our D-line into a new weakness, and whatever downgrade we accept at DT is probably not going to be superseded by a depth upgrade at other positions.

 

[tomdalton22]

And I said he would get 14-15 million. It doesn't contradict anything I said. The Lions can handle that contract easily too. And if that is the set market value (13 mil), that is great leverage for the Lions. 22 million number has already been handled in 2014. Either they do the deal or don't. Franchising is known off the table so if Suh wants to stay he'll do a deal around market value.

If the Lions sign him to $14-15M when market value is $13M they are over paying. Suh has the leverage and he is bending the Lions over!

 

[LKP]

If the Lions sign him to $14-15M when market value is $13M they are over paying. Suh has the leverage and he is bending the Lions over!

Not really with the cap increase. 14/15 million works for the Lions too. They still get cap relief actually and spread the base over an extra year.

 

[tomdalton22]

Not really with the cap increase. 14/15 million works for the Lions too. They still get cap relief actually and spread the base over an extra year.

so...if he is worth $13M in the open market and the Lions have to pay him $15M per year that isn't a problem for the Lions? Just over pay because you have the space?

 

[LKP]

so...if he is worth $13M in the open market and the Lions have to pay him $15M per year that isn't a problem for the Lions? Just over pay because you have the space?

Not a problem if you can handle it. And the Lions can. There is a cap increase. And keeping Suh is not a problem at all. It's a great thing.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

so...if he is worth $13M in the open market and the Lions have to pay him $15M per year that isn't a problem for the Lions? Just over pay because you have the space?

That's not exactly a cut and dry question. Is it a problem if the Lions overpay anyone? Yes, to the fact that they give up opportunity. But if the alternative is losing the player altogether, overpaying may still be the better option. We have to replace lost production with whatever money we gain, and we would be losing a lot of production. Even spread among multiple positions, it's not easy find multiple upgrades for cheap.

 

[tomdalton22]

That's not exactly a cut and dry question. Is it a problem if the Lions overpay anyone? Yes, to the fact that they give up opportunity. But if the alternative is losing the player altogether, overpaying may still be the better option. We have to replace lost production with whatever money we gain, and we would be losing a lot of production. Even spread among multiple positions, it's not easy find multiple upgrades for cheap.

I contend that it is NEVER a good thing to over pay for a player because the franchise is forced to re-sign because they don't have a plan B. The Lions may lose both starting DTs and have nobody to replace them. Good plan Mayhew!

 

[LKP]

I contend that it is NEVER a good thing to over pay for a player because the franchise is forced to re-sign because they don't have a plan B. The Lions may lose both starting DTs and have nobody to replace them. Good plan Mayhew!

He's trying to re-sign Suh and motivate Fairley. That's the plan. And a damn good one.

 

[dubbsco]

If ANY professional athlete has trouble with motivation, then they shouldn't be in their respective league. These guys are adults playing a violent game. Motivation is the LAST thing Caldwell should worry about with the Lions.

 

[inkfreq]

I have a pretty solid understanding of the new CBA, but I am not sure on the 1st round, 5th year option clause as it pertains to the Franchise or Transition tags.

If you decline the 5th year option on a guy, is there anything in the CBA actually preventing you from franchising him at the end of the season?

For example, we declined the option on Fairley. If he plays like an absolute beat this season looking for that first big payday, can we choose to franchise him?

His tag would cost about 9.7m against the cap for next year, but if you get that kind of production from him, it's well worth it, assuming you can do it.

So Suh walks for free, we draft a talented DT, tag Fairley, and either work out a long term deal, or go back the draft a year later and take another talented DT.

I don't see this as a crippling problem for our D-Line even if we lose them both, if we have the option to tag Fairley for next season.