Romney Will Vote to Convict and Remove President Trump

[Michchamp]

Would the doughnut hole be considered to be that sun?s black hole?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R6RD6mjiIZE

I never heard it - growing up in Detroit - but a Boston radio station had a parody of "Black Hole Sun," called "Asshole Son" I heard years later. you can probably find on youtube.

 

[Gulo Blue]

appropos of this... I've been saving this article:

Over roughly the last three decades, five major US oil companies have spent a total of at least $3.6bn on advertisements ? not counting their investments in public relations programs like sponsored beach clean-ups, or their influence through trade associations, dark money groups and campaign donations.​

That's a lot of money to spend fighting a supposed myth...

But they'd probably claim fighting against the deep pockets of "Big Science" > isn't cheap.

all the Museums here in Houston are largely bankrolled by Big Oil, or inherited oil money in some way, shape, or form. They even manage to get large exhibits about how oil is "part of the solution" in there... I am sure the dollars spent on such funding isn't counted as lobby money, but it should be.

While 'part of the solution' sounds counter-intuitive, I do think it will be the oil companies that transition. They won't go away. They'll eventually make more money using greener technologies.


Of course, that day would come a lot sooner if we didn't subsidize fossil fuels.


If it were up to me, we'd tax fossil fuels and pump that money right back into the energy industry in the form of greener energy subsidies.

 

[Spartanmack]

Yeah. It's that massive climate awareness industry pushing its propaganda! That adds up.

it does indeed. adds up to tens of millions of dollars to fund more peer reviewed garbage science.

 

[Spartanmack]

Best for what? I'm sure you have access to any points I would make. You reject them for some reason. Somehow, you look at the news and think the President has an obligation to look into the Bidens. Exclusively the Bidens? And this obligation just happened to kick in when the timing was significant to an election? And the best tools at the President's disposal for conducting an investigation? His personal lawyer going through back channels of course. Totally legal and cool.

If I disagreed with them I wouldn't reject them, like you did. I would point out the flaws in them like you didn't.

 

[Gulo Blue]

it does indeed. adds up to tens of millions of dollars to fund more peer reviewed garbage science.

TENS of millions!

 

[Spartanmack]

Oooooh! TENS of millions!

ooooh, more hard hitting rebuttals - you haven't lost your touch. Can't argue with pop culture references, you've proved me wrong again, man made global climate change must be real.

It's probably much more, I didn't and don't feel like looking it up because it doesn't matter. Whatever the number is, being a climate alarmist is basically a prerequisite for getting a university job let alone funding for research.

 

[Gulo Blue]

ooooh, more hard hitting rebuttals - you haven't lost your touch. Can't argue with pop culture references, you've proved me wrong again, man made global climate change must be real.

It's probably much more, I didn't and don't feel like looking it up because it doesn't matter. Whatever the number is, being a climate alarmist is basically a prerequisite for getting a university job let alone funding for research.

Right. Because you have a history of backing up your claims and I don't. Got it. We're living on two different worlds, and apparently two different message boards too. And now you want me to go down that path again? Why?

 

[Spartanmack]

Right. Because you have a history of backing up your claims and I don't. Got it. We're living on two different worlds, and apparently two different message boards too. And now you want me to go down that path again? Why?

one of us is backing up his claim here, but it's not you.

 

[tinselwolverine]

It’s a good thing we’re having this debate today, instead of a half century ago.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1z-AxgueBRk

 

[Gulo Blue]

one of us is backing up his claim here, but it's not you.

You understand that the pop culture reference isn't just a pop culture reference, right? Just like 1 million wasn't a lot of money when Dr. Evil time traveled (or froze or whatever) and it was funny because what he thought was a lot of money was insignificant relative to the situation, 10 million is nothing compared to the deep pockets of fossil fuel lobbyists. On the topic of the influence of money, it's a very relevant point that you somehow think is invalid because I make it with a pop culture reference.

 

[Gulo Blue]

...and how do you imagine you've backed up your claim?

 

[Spartanmack]

...and how do you imagine you've backed up your claim?

I'm not imagining anything. Are you saying these aren't facts, just figments of my imagination?

I think both - if it is true it's not an impeachable offense and also the evidence is beyond weak. I also believe it's the President's obligation to ask for an investigation of the Bidens. That relationships stinks to high heaven and the fact that people hate Trump so much that they're willing to pretend nothing happened or just ignore it altogether says a lot. The fact that Joe may be his opponent in 2020 is no reason to turn a blind eye to evidence of corruption. Does anyone wonder why not one Dem seeking the nomination recused themselves from the Impeachment process? Don't they benefit politically if Trump is impeached? Is that not improper? Odd, right?

Also, there's a difference between thinking he did it and there being evidence to support that belief.

It's a common belief among the Ukranians who all clearly stated that they felt no pressure to investigate the Bidens and that they were never told military aid was conditional on an investigation or anything else. It's also common knowledge that not a single witness called by the Dems had any direct knowledge of a quid pro quo - not one of them. Their testimony boiled down to what they believed, not what they heard, saw or read directly from the administration anywhere.

You have Biden bragging that he withheld more than 2x the amount Trump is accused of if Ukraine didn't fire the prosecutor investigating the company his son was involved in. Trump has done far more for Ukraine than Obama ever did - in fact, Obama caved to the Russians and withdrew our commitment to providing a missile defense system. All we gave the Ukranians under Obama was a bunch of MRE's and some cash. And now every Dem in Congress is ready to kick Trump out of office for supposedly delaying critical aid to our ally they didn't give a shit about 4 years ago. How does anyone take them seriously?

It's clear, this whole thing is about undoing an election they don't like. Period.

It's also a fact that one of the Dems witnesses in the house said under oath that when he asked the President what he wanted, Trump told him directly he wanted nothing, no quid pro quo.

It's also a fact that the twin brother of one of the star witnesses is responsible for reviewing and redacting book manuscripts like the one from John Bolton but nobody seems to be freaking out about it being leaked to the New York Times, which by the way doesn't provide a single quote from the book that says Bolton said Trump told him he was withholding aid until the Ukranians agreed to investigate the Bidens. I guess they're all too busy making sure everyone knows George Soros is behind a dastardly plot to screw over Bernie Sanders.

 

[sggatecl]

not really on topic but for the climate change fanatic, we need to improve the tech and get these down to a manageable size. All in due time I suppose.


A wind turbine?s blades can be longer than a Boeing 747 wing. But where do they end up when they aren't in use? Landfills in Iowa, Wyoming and South Dakota


https://twitter.com/business/status...-are-piling-up-in-landfills-cant-be-recycled/

The free market is working on that.

https://resource-recycling.com/plastics/2019/03/27/company-expands-wind-turbine-recycling-operation/

 

[Gulo Blue]

I'm not imagining anything. Are you saying these aren't facts?



It's also a fact that one of the Dems witnesses in the house said under oath that when he asked the President what he wanted, Trump told him directly he wanted nothing, no quid pro quo.

It's also a fact that the twin brother of one of the star witnesses is responsible for reviewing and redacting book manuscripts like the one from John Bolton but nobody seems to be freaking out about it being leaked to the New York Times. I guess they're all too busy making sure everyone knows George Soros is behind a dastardly plot to screw over Bernie Sanders.

Yeah. See, this is the bullshit I don't want to do. Start arguing over what counts as supporting a fact and what is rhetoric. The idea that the dems should or shouldn't recuse themselves - rhetoric, that they didn't, fact. And then there are the phrases like 'there's a difference' or 'it's a common belief'. You walk this BS line and maybe you don't even realize you're walking it, but it's not worth arguing against. I've seen it before.

 

[Spartanmack]

Yeah. See, this is the bullshit I don't want to do. Start arguing over what counts as supporting a fact and what is rhetoric. The idea that the dems should or shouldn't recuse themselves - rhetoric, that they didn't, fact. And then there are the phrases like 'there's a difference' or 'it's a common belief'. You walk this BS line and maybe you don't even realize you're walking it, but it's not worth arguing against. I've seen it before.

Talk about walking BS lines, this post is a classic. Actually, you're not walking a line, you dove right into the bullshit.

first, the whole thing is about the impropriety of Trump asking for an investigation that benefits him politically, something widely accepted as fact. But, it's rhetoric to say people running for President investigating and voting to impeach the person they hope to run against benefit politically from how they vote. of course you selectively choose a couple lesser facts (but still facts) to try to make the seem unclear or even sketchy when they are actual facts. Perhaps you do this so you can avoid having to address the bigger facts, like the ones that disprove your position because they show there is no real evidence to support it. so yeah, it's probably a good idea on your part not to get into the facts here, but you're the one walking a BS line here, not me.

 

[Spartanmack]

Let's just make it about the evidence for impeachment. How about you just take a shot at these?

It's a common belief among the Ukranians who all clearly stated that they felt no pressure to investigate the Bidens and that they were never told military aid was conditional on an investigation or anything else. They also said they weren't even aware the aid was delayed.

It's also common knowledge that not a single witness called by the Dems had any direct knowledge of a quid pro quo - not one of them. Their testimony boiled down to what they believed, not what they heard, saw or read directly from the administration anywhere.

It's also a fact that one of the Dems witnesses in the house said under oath that when he asked the President what he wanted, Trump told him directly he wanted nothing, no quid pro quo.

To me it seems kinda hard to have a quid pro quo when the other party was never aware of one, they never acted on the supposed request the quid pro quo was conditioned on and they got the aid without any knowledge that it was delayed. But maybe I'm just walking a BS line with all these pesky facts, or are they just rhetoric?

 

[Gulo Blue]

Let's just make it about the evidence for impeachment. How about you just take a shot at these?




To me it seems kinda hard to have a quid pro quo when the other party was never aware of one, they never acted on the supposed request the quid pro quo was conditioned on and they got the aid without any knowledge that it was delayed. But maybe I'm just walking a BS line with all these pesky facts, or are they just rhetoric?

I honestly think that if you had to bet a dollar on my answers to each of these, you'd guess correctly. And I usually think you guess wrong on these kinds of things. But this time, the arguments have been been discussed so much, I think this is an exception.


But here goes:


Ukrainians are in a stickier political position than we are and pretty much have to say what they said. These are political lies because it would have looked bad (or rather, like an opportunity to the Russians) if there was an appearance of wavering American support, and these statements were not made under oath.


Trump ordered everyone under his command to not testify.


Trump saying 'no quid pro quo' to anyone who would listen after he found out about the whistleblower, if anything, suggests that he knew what he'd been up to was wrong.

 

[Spartanmack]

I honestly think that if you had to bet a dollar on my answers to each of these, you'd guess correctly. And I usually think you guess wrong on these kinds of things. But this time, the arguments have been been discussed so much, I think this is an exception.


But here goes:


Ukrainians are in a stickier political position than we are and pretty much have to say what they said. These are political lies because it would have looked bad (or rather, like an opportunity to the Russians) if there was an appearance of wavering American support, and these statements were not made under oath.


Trump ordered everyone under his command to not testify.



Trump saying 'no quid pro quo' to anyone who would listen after he found out about the whistleblower, if anything, suggests that he knew what he'd been up to was wrong.

and I'm the one who is imagining their claim is backed up...

by the way, the reason I used the words "it's a common belief..." was because you asked if it was "common to think he wasn't trying condition the military aid on the Biden investigation." It was sarcasm - surprised you didn't pick up on it.

 

[tigermud]

The free market is working on that.

https://resource-recycling.com/plastics/2019/03/27/company-expands-wind-turbine-recycling-operation/

Good now just need trump to win again and not Bernie

 

[tigermud]

I honestly think that if you had to bet a dollar on my answers to each of these, you'd guess correctly. And I usually think you guess wrong on these kinds of things. But this time, the arguments have been been discussed so much, I think this is an exception.


But here goes:


Ukrainians are in a stickier political position than we are and pretty much have to say what they said. These are political lies because it would have looked bad (or rather, like an opportunity to the Russians) if there was an appearance of wavering American support, and these statements were not made under oath.


Trump ordered everyone under his command to not testify.


Trump saying 'no quid pro quo' to anyone who would listen after he found out about the whistleblower, if anything, suggests that he knew what he'd been up to was wrong.

And why shouldn?t he, isn?t three + years of trying to overthrow 2016 for the queen long enough yet? And besides he has a right to challenge in the judicial.