Sept 17th @ ND

[Sbee]

I've noticed some of these Sparties over here can be real Debbie Downers.

I agree, just appreciate the win. I didn't expect us to win this game. It's a road win against a ranked team and people are upset that the lead went from 29 to 8.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I agree, just appreciate the win. I didn't expect us to win this game. It's a road win against a ranked team and people are upset that the lead went from 29 to 8.

Spartans went into the game as a touchdown underdog. Upset when on the road against a ranked opponent; Spartans are undefeated and really have just as much of a chance to make a national championship run as Ohio State or Michigan do.

 

[Sbee]

Side note, we now have all four of our rivalry trophies. the Megaphone, Old brass spittoon, Land Grant, and Paul Bunyan. first time since 1999 to have all 4

 

[Sbee]

Interesting defensive wrinkle, do you remember Frey going deep into coverage as a safety a few times? never seen that before, seemed to confuse Kizer.

 

[Spartanmack]

Who knows if ND will be decent or not but Kizer is a great QB, the best that I can remember at ND. He's likely the best QB that we'll play all year, maybe JT is close but Kizer has a stronger arm, great vision, and he's elusive. Some Mock drafts have him going #1 overall in the NFL draft. ND with 2 losses has essentially nothing to play for, no chance at the CFP and no conference to win, who knows where their season goes?

I think questions are answered on the OL for MSU, we beat them up on the ground against a good front 7. That was a huge question mark going in, we were replacing a lot on offense and the OL was key. The OL passed the test big time.

kizer #1 overall is a joke. he's not a great QB and he doesn't stand out as being head and shoulders above other ND QBs and I've been watching regularly since Tony Rice.

also, while the OL is much improved, they didn't face a really good front 7. ND hasn't stopped either MSU or Texas defensively. I didn't see the Nevada game but I've watched them 2x time now and both teams ran and threw all over them. the results don't support that assertion.

 

[Spartanmack]

But wait, I thought Texas was back? At least that's what the fine folks at ESPN have been telling me for 3 weeks now. It's not like they have their own network agreement with ESPN, there's no way that could have been biased information.

the people who said that are probably the same people that said dashone kizer is a great QB - those are definitely the same people who said Johnny Adams was an elite cornerback.

 

[Spartanmack]

Texas was jacked sky high and beat ND at home. Then they go in the road and lay an egg. Not much value in transitive performance here. Texas certainly looked like a great team the last couple weeks.

There is always an excuse for our wins. Just enjoy it, we went on the road at night into one of the toughest stadiums in the country and beat a ranked opponent. As I said, the last 3 times we went in the road vs ranked teams we won. Nothing fluky about any of it. This team knows how to win and we do not have a tough road game left in our schedule.

who said it was fluky? just calling a spade a spade. we dominated for a good part of the game then tried like hell to blow it. we look much improved over week 1 but it's obvious we have yet to play a really good team - ND stinks, particularly on defense. those aren't excuses, it's the objectively observable reality.

 

[Spartanmack]

I think people are making too big a deal out of the ND "comeback." the important fact is, you were up 36-7 on them, on the road. What are the odds of a team mounting a 29 point comeback in a game, ith less than one half to play?

it's a solid win for you guys. and no one expected a blowout anyway, right?

I don't think anyone would place a high probability on a comeback. the issue is about finishing and keeping a team down when you appear to have put them away and we didn't do it. 95% of that is on dantonio. the other 5% that's worth mentioning is our LBs and DBs looked literally lost in space with 7 or 8 guys in coverage but completions being made to wide open guys all over the field. when the LBs were stoping the run and blitzing they looked great but everyone looked awful in coverage when we weren't sending guys after the QB.

 

[Spartanmack]

Interesting defensive wrinkle, do you remember Frey going deep into coverage as a safety a few times? never seen that before, seemed to confuse Kizer.

Its not a bad move. he's really an undersized linebacker that relies on speed, probably too big to be a full time safety but maybe he could drop the weight and play back there. may be worth considering if we get banged up back there, especially if Ed Davis works his way back quickly.

 

[Sbee]

kizer #1 overall is a joke. he's not a great QB and he doesn't stand out as being head and shoulders above other ND QBs and I've been watching regularly since Tony Rice.

also, while the OL is much improved, they didn't face a really good front 7. ND hasn't stopped either MSU or Texas defensively. I didn't see the Nevada game but I've watched them 2x time now and both teams ran and threw all over them. the results don't support that assertion.

Two relatively reputable sites have him as the #1 overall player in the draft

http://walterfootball.com/draft2017.php

http://www.draftsite.com/nfl/mock-draft/2017/

but you watched the games and said he's not that great in your opinion, so we'll trust you. Never mind that ND was 9-2 last year with him as QB, the only two losses coming @ Clemson and @ Stanford by a combined 4pts. They were one kick away from having a real shot at the CFP.

Also, ND has a terrible secondary, their front 7 is good. they dismissed their starting safety, suspended one corner indefinitely and the other ruptured his achilles tendon last week. we did face good d linemen and linebackers, we faced inexperienced DB's. MSU controlled the line of scrimmage all night, that is a big statement for this team.

 

[Sbee]

Its not a bad move. he's really an undersized linebacker that relies on speed, probably too big to be a full time safety but maybe he could drop the weight and play back there. may be worth considering if we get banged up back there, especially if Ed Davis works his way back quickly.

There's no intention of making him a safety, it's just a change of pace to confuse a QB, MSU did it a few times with Max Bullough. It's just a way to get faster safeties in underneath and have a mobile linebacker deep to help you. They did it twice, once Kizer threw the ball out of bounds, the other time was a coverage sack by Raqueon Williams. Right after the sack, ND called time out since they needed to talk that over, the ended up punting on the next play, a horrible coaching move to take a timeout before a punt. It's a chess game out there and MD outmaneuvered Kelly.

 

[byco42]

If I say that "ND just must not be very good" in response to an observation that MSU has ran 36 straight on them, is that considered a slight against the Spartans?

 

[Sbee]

If I say that "ND just must not be very good" in response to an observation that MSU has ran 36 straight on them, is that considered a slight against the Spartans?

They may not be very good, who knows? it's early. I think they have a great QB and some weapons but I don't think they can overcome losing 3 starting DB's. I do think that coming from a Michigan fan directly after a big MSU win it will come across as a bit of a slight, or at least some will take it that way. If UM just won a big game against a ranked team on the road, a MSU fan saying that team isn't very good would have the same effect.

 

[byco42]

They may not be very good, who knows? it's early. I think they have a great QB and some weapons but I don't think they can overcome losing 3 starting DB's. I do think that coming from a Michigan fan directly after a big MSU win it will come across as a bit of a slight, or at least some will take it that way. If UM just won a big game against a ranked team on the road, a MSU fan saying that team isn't very good would have the same effect.

It was not meant to be a slight, but the twitter-tempest it caused was surprising to me. Maybe I should have qualified that it was ND's defense that was not very good. Trying to turn over a new leaf here by directing some attention to the MSU programs and it appears that I need some lessons in prudence in my observations.

 

[Sbee]

It was not meant to be a slight, but the twitter-tempest it caused was surprising to me. Maybe I should have qualified that it was ND's defense that was not very good. Trying to turn over a new leaf here by directing some attention to the MSU programs and it appears that I need some lessons in prudence in my observations.

I've read your posts for over a decade, I don't think it's as much of a slight but I can see how it can be perceived that way. I'd consider it much more of an obvious slight coming from a few others. Regardless, making that kind of an observation of a rivals opponent after a big win will invoke that kind of response.

 

[Spartanmack]

Two relatively reputable sites have him as the #1 overall player in the draft

http://walterfootball.com/draft2017.php

http://www.draftsite.com/nfl/mock-draft/2017/

but you watched the games and said he's not that great in your opinion, so we'll trust you. Never mind that ND was 9-2 last year with him as QB, the only two losses coming @ Clemson and @ Stanford by a combined 4pts. They were one kick away from having a real shot at the CFP.

Also, ND has a terrible secondary, their front 7 is good. they dismissed their starting safety, suspended one corner indefinitely and the other ruptured his achilles tendon last week. we did face good d linemen and linebackers, we faced inexperienced DB's. MSU controlled the line of scrimmage all night, that is a big statement for this team.

The leading draft expert said Johnny Adams was the #1 CB in the country around this time in his senior year. Around this time last year, the leading experts were saying Connor Cook was the best QB in the nation and many had him going in the top 10 or so of the draft. Funny, I disagreed with both of them and got nothing but vitriol from Spartan lackeys like you and Johnny.

And yes, I watched two games he's played this year and at least 8 games he played last year. I'm aware of his stats and his rather pedestrian QB rating - I've even noticed that the only reason he has just a slightly below average QBR is because he padded his stats against teams like UMass, Pitt and UVA. He didn't get close to an average QBR against any good teams - against a good BC defense his rating was dog shit. But you'll go with the experts because doing otherwise would mean you would have to think for yourself instead of just posting what you read on the internet after the game. Plus, it allows you think that MSU's secondary is better than it is and it gives you an excuse when the experts turn out to be wrong.

And no, ND's front 7 is not "good". Against Texas they gave up 237 yards rushing, 5 TDs and 4.0 ypc - nearly half of Texas total offensive production, so a pretty balanced defensive debacle for ND. They held the vaunted rushing attack of Nevada to 99 yards and a TD while MSU rushed for 260 yards at 5.0 ypc and 3 TDs - more than half the 501 yards of total offense. Only an MSU homer would say ND has a very good front 7 after watching those games and reading those stats so they could brag about how good the O Line is. You're right that MSU did control the line of scrimmage, which is a nice step in the right direction, but they did not do it against a good front 7. The facts don't support what you say, but maybe we should trust you because you read an article from and "expert."

and oh, by the way ND isn't ranked anymore. But nobody can take away from us the fact that we beat a ranked team on the road, even though rankings at this point are clearly meaningless. Just look at Texas, they went from unranked to 11th after beating ND and now they're 21st (24th in coaches). But to you, that's reliable enough to toot our horn for beating a ranked team.

 

[Spartanmack]

If I say that "ND just must not be very good" in response to an observation that MSU has ran 36 straight on them, is that considered a slight against the Spartans?

no, it would be considered a keen observation by most objective fans.

 

[Sbee]

The leading draft expert said Johnny Adams was the #1 CB in the country around this time in his senior year. Around this time last year, the leading experts were saying Connor Cook was the best QB in the nation and many had him going in the top 10 or so of the draft. Funny, I disagreed with both of them and got nothing but vitriol from Spartan lackeys like you and Johnny.

And yes, I watched two games he's played this year and at least 8 games he played last year. I'm aware of his stats and his rather pedestrian QB rating - I've even noticed that the only reason he has just a slightly below average QBR is because he padded his stats against teams like UMass, Pitt and UVA. He didn't get close to an average QBR against any good teams - against a good BC defense his rating was dog shit. But you'll go with the experts because doing otherwise would mean you would have to think for yourself instead of just posting what you read on the internet after the game. Plus, it allows you think that MSU's secondary is better than it is and it gives you an excuse when the experts turn out to be wrong.

And no, ND's front 7 is not "good". Against Texas they gave up 237 yards rushing, 5 TDs and 4.0 ypc - nearly half of Texas total offensive production, so a pretty balanced defensive debacle for ND. They held the vaunted rushing attack of Nevada to 99 yards and a TD while MSU rushed for 260 yards at 5.0 ypc and 3 TDs - more than half the 501 yards of total offense. Only an MSU homer would say ND has a very good front 7 after watching those games and reading those stats so they could brag about how good the O Line is. You're right that MSU did control the line of scrimmage, which is a nice step in the right direction, but they did not do it against a good front 7. The facts don't support what you say, but maybe we should trust you because you read an article from and "expert."

and oh, by the way ND isn't ranked anymore. But nobody can take away from us the fact that we beat a ranked team on the road, even though rankings at this point are clearly meaningless. Just look at Texas, they went from unranked to 11th after beating ND and now they're 21st (24th in coaches). But to you, that's reliable enough to toot our horn for beating a ranked team.

I'm not sure what Johnny Adams or Connor Cook have to do with Deshon Kizer. I see a mobile qb who's a good runner, has a very strong and accurate arm and good decision making. I don't buy that ND's QB isn't very good, but I'm sure you're hell bent on taking this off the rails and arguing it for days so have at it.

ND does have a strong front 7, of course the linebackers have to cheat, drop back and not blitz as much since their secondary is decimated right now. ND also has a great offensive line and didn't run the ball very well against us, they do have a tackle and guard that are projected as football picks, which generally doesn't mean anything unless Mack blesses them. He's better than Mel Kiper at prognosticating in his spare time.

As for ND not being ranked, of course they aren't, they just lost a second game. if they beat us they'd be ranked but the loss dropped them out, I'm not sure what your point is. Yes I'm happy for MSU being a ranked team on the road in a tough place to play. I never said that ND is a great team but this is a win we should be happy about, not many of us were picking a win beforehand, rightfully so. I'm pleasantly surprised by the win, I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[tomdalton22]

These mock draft guys change their minds game by game. In the previous Walter Football Mock draft he had Brad Kaaya going first...now he has him going 16th.

 

[Sbee]

These mock draft guys change their minds game by game. In the previous Walter Football Mock draft he had Brad Kaaya going first...now he has him going 16th.

Yes, these are fluid and imperfect. That doesn't change the fact that Deshon Kaizer is a good QB. Being projected to go #1 doesn't mean that I think he's the best pro prospect in college football but it does indicate that he is a very good QB.