Steal of the draft

[dubbsco]

Fair enough. And I wouldn't want my team tanking a quarter of the way through, that would be pretty stupid.

 

[zoombabyzoom]

Honestly if there is 20 games left in the season and you are 5 or more games out of the 8th spot. You should lose those last 20 games on purpose.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

I'm didn't put any limits on when it's right to start tanking. Like I said, it's different for each person. For Deathroh, it's one game at the end of the season if it will shift your position. For others, it's once the team is out of playoff position (which honestly could be as early as 1/4th of the way into the season). Some may go so far as to propose tanking from day 1 if their team is bad enough and the prize is good enough (Lebron/Shaq).

And no, Deathroh, there isn't a right way. Your way can fail just as easily as anyone elses. It can be right to you, which is good enough. The Rockets have a very smart GM, they've found good players outside top picks, and field a competitive team. But they've also missed the playoffs several times since Yao's retirement. They are trying as hard as possible to pull Dwight out of Orlando. Why? Because even a good GM needs big luck to get their team to the top. Houston is much better than Detroit, but they are still on the outside looking in until they strike gold in the draft or trade.

We don't have assets to make a trade. We don't have the money or draw to land a top free agent. We HAVE to strike gold in the draft. Maybe we will, maybe we already have. But, playing the odds says we have a better chance with a higher pick.

 

[Mitchrapp]

As noted in the tank thread there is a "right" way to look at it...

"I hope the Pistons win as many games as possible, and end up selecting the best player available with whatever pick they get. If those two things happen, the organization will be successful. Rooting for anything else would be illogical."

I agree with this. Cant have any fun hoping the team loses.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

I agree with this. Cant have any fun hoping the team loses.

People find enjoyment in the pain and misery of others all the time. Watch pretty much any comedy and try to tell me different. Just because YOU don't have fun when a team loses doesn't mean NO ONE has fun. If your mindset is already on the future, if the payoff is in the draft, I can see eliciting a lot of enjoyment out of the Pistons losing.

Though I personally find joy in individual players and development when I know losing is the best option, I don't fault those who are just happy we lost. That is the crux of my whole argument. You can have your opinion, just don't be obnoxious about being at all times right and others wrong when logically, winning can often be counterproductive.

 

[dubbsco]

Losing sucks, but sometimes, winning at the wrong time does as well. See my example above. I also remember a couple years back, the Pistons decided to go on a winning streak with less than 10 games to go, which also cost them several spots in the draft.

I couldn't imagine if RR pulled off the bowl game against Miss St, and that was enough to convince Brandon to not fire him. That would be an awful, unnecessary win.

 

[austindayeisaboss]

All we need from him this year is 8 ppg and 8 rpg and I think everyone will be happy. This was the perfect pick at #9. I am starting to think that we might contend for the 7th or 8th spot this year.

 

[mhughes0021]

As noted in the tank thread there is a "right" way to look at it...

"I hope the Pistons win as many games as possible, and end up selecting the best player available with whatever pick they get. If those two things happen, the organization will be successful. Rooting for anything else would be illogical."

They obvious flaw of your "hope" being that if the pistons actually did win as many games as possible than they wont have a #1 pick next year

 

[sggatecl]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8111210/welcome-draft-diary-xvi

8:23 — Detroit snaps up a relieved Drummond at no. 9. "He's giving me everything I want," Jacoby says. "At first, he was super-sad and emotional and vulnerable, and then he seemed happier than anyone when he shook hands with Stern. I'm in on him."

8:24 — Bilas mentions that Drummond shot 29 percent on free throws last year. "What?????" Jacoby yelps with a mouthful of meatballs. "I'm out on Drummond." That was fast. You could say Drummond is a combination of Shaquille O'Neal (free throws), Dikembe Mutombo (low-post moves), Andrew Bynum (effort) and Bubba Watson (emotional stability). Still, the Pistons have to be delighted — instead of talking themselves into a 216-pound center (John Henson), they ended up with a 280-pound center (Drummond). That's 64 more pounds of center! Big win!

8:25 — An increasingly heated "Will Drummond make it?" argument ends like this …

House: "He can't play! We both watched that Draft Express video!"

Me: "Yeah, but you have to admit, he's got a nice face."

House: "HE CAN'T PLAY!!!"

 

[wheels002]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8111210/welcome-draft-diary-xvi

8:23 ? Detroit snaps up a relieved Drummond at no. 9. "He's giving me everything I want," Jacoby says. "At first, he was super-sad and emotional and vulnerable, and then he seemed happier than anyone when he shook hands with Stern. I'm in on him."

8:24 ? Bilas mentions that Drummond shot 29 percent on free throws last year. "What?????" Jacoby yelps with a mouthful of meatballs. "I'm out on Drummond." That was fast. You could say Drummond is a combination of Shaquille O'Neal (free throws), Dikembe Mutombo (low-post moves), Andrew Bynum (effort) and Bubba Watson (emotional stability). Still, the Pistons have to be delighted ? instead of talking themselves into a 216-pound center (John Henson), they ended up with a 280-pound center (Drummond). That's 64 more pounds of center! Big win!

8:25 ? An increasingly heated "Will Drummond make it?" argument ends like this ?

House: "He can't play! We both watched that Draft Express video!"

Me: "Yeah, but you have to admit, he's got a nice face."

House: "HE CAN'T PLAY!!!"

That article is pretty funny. The best parts were when they talked about the guy from Weber St or Plumlee.

 

[deathroh]

People find enjoyment in the pain and misery of others all the time. Watch pretty much any comedy and try to tell me different. Just because YOU don't have fun when a team loses doesn't mean NO ONE has fun. If your mindset is already on the future, if the payoff is in the draft, I can see eliciting a lot of enjoyment out of the Pistons losing.

Though I personally find joy in individual players and development when I know losing is the best option, I don't fault those who are just happy we lost. That is the crux of my whole argument. You can have your opinion, just don't be obnoxious about being at all times right and others wrong when logically, winning can often be counterproductive.

I suppose the answer is that I can take sports too seriously, but it just doesn't sit right with me when a fan can be happy after every single loss for a full season in the HOPE that it'll help them. With all the variables involved in a season long tank job (most losses does not equal best pick, best pick does not equal best player) while I can obviously see the potential benefit, it's just not worth it to me. And yes, it is a personal opinion/belief/whatever, but to me the alternative is mainly just an excuse for that fan to emotionally check out and not give a crap. Obnoxious as it may sound, that fan can suck my balls.

 

[Mitchrapp]

People find enjoyment in the pain and misery of others all the time. Watch pretty much any comedy and try to tell me different. Just because YOU don't have fun when a team loses doesn't mean NO ONE has fun. If your mindset is already on the future, if the payoff is in the draft, I can see eliciting a lot of enjoyment out of the Pistons losing.

Though I personally find joy in individual players and development when I know losing is the best option, I don't fault those who are just happy we lost. That is the crux of my whole argument. You can have your opinion, just don't be obnoxious about being at all times right and others wrong when logically, winning can often be counterproductive.

And as a fan you suck, no offense.

 

[sggatecl]

That article is pretty funny. The best parts were when they talked about the guy from Weber St or Plumlee.

His draft day articles, regardless of sport, are usually gold. One of the few homer writers I enjoy reading.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

I suppose the answer is that I can take sports too seriously, but it just doesn't sit right with me when a fan can be happy after every single loss for a full season in the HOPE that it'll help them. With all the variables involved in a season long tank job (most losses does not equal best pick, best pick does not equal best player) while I can obviously see the potential benefit, it's just not worth it to me. And yes, it is a personal opinion/belief/whatever, but to me the alternative is mainly just an excuse for that fan to emotionally check out and not give a crap. Obnoxious as it may sound, that fan can suck my balls.

I've said before, I prefer to win until winning becomes counterproductive. Maybe it is an excuse to check out and remove the frustration from losses. But I can't see a problem with being less unhappy when a bad team (what the Pistons currently are) loses a game that had no business winning in the first place. Unless I'm a Bobcats fan (and I can't imagine why anyone would be), I wouldn't advocate a season long tank job either (and in the Bobcats case, it's not tanking, they are just the worst team ever assembled).

And as a fan you suck, no offense.

I would say a good fan understands there is more to the game and franchise than individual wins and losses. If your team is within reach of the playoffs, they should ALWAYS try to make it - the financial benefit is drastically more beneficial than 1 or 2 draft slots and a less than 1% chance of moving up. However, if you team is NOT within reach of the playoffs, every win reduces their chances of getting a better player/rookie/trade asset. My goal as a fan is to see my team make the best decisions possible and field the best team available. I can't bank on other teams making bad decisions (for example those that gave us Monroe-Knight-Drummond), nor should I expect my team to fail when opportunity strikes (Darko).

But those things happen, and it allows luck to dictate the opinions of fans. I hope we get lucky too, but I'd rather be in the best position to make good decisions beforehand.

 

[deathroh]

I've said before, I prefer to win until winning becomes counterproductive. Maybe it is an excuse to check out and remove the frustration from losses. But I can't see a problem with being less unhappy when a bad team (what the Pistons currently are) loses a game that had no business winning in the first place....

I don't see a problem with that either.

 

[jmakula87]

Well said, everyoneneedsasmil. That is exactly how I feel. I don't know if it is just because I am older now, or because the Pistons were so solid for so many years in a row, or even possibly because of changes in the NBA, but being stuck in NBA Hell for a team is just brutal.

A team that doesn't have the allure of a place like NY, LA, or I guess Miami has to build their team the right way, and it seems like we are starting to do that. I feel like we have definitely gotten lucky with Knight, Monroe, and Drummond since we didn't have top top picks like the Thunder did with their rebuilding.