Suh not being franchised

[inkfreq]

I read a lot of people singing the praises of Austin as a D-Coordinator this last season. So if he's so awesome, why are people so worried about losing one guy?

I'm personally not sold on Austin yet, and I think he managed to get all these high picks to finally play well, but that also means he should be able to sign or draft a guy and do it again.

I just don't understand how so many people can think the D-Coordinator is so shit hot, but those same folks think our defense falls apart without one guy.

Makes no sense to me.

 

[LKP]

Rumor has it we offered 15 per

Then it's the Lions fault if true. Good to stick to your principles on what you think a guy is worth but 2 million more per year is not that big of a deal in order to keep Suh.

Someone will offer him more than 15 per easily. I'd be shocked if he tested free agency and he ended up coming back to the Lions for 15 per.

 

[LKP]

I read a lot of people singing the praises of Austin as a D-Coordinator this last season. So if he's so awesome, why are people so worried about losing one guy?

I'm personally not sold on Austin yet, and I think he managed to get all these high picks to finally play well, but that also means he should be able to sign or draft a guy and do it again.

I just don't understand how so many people can think the D-Coordinator is so shit hot, but those same folks think our defense falls apart without one guy.

Makes no sense to me.

Depends how we replace Suh now. Suh helps Austin scheme the way he does. Also Ansah, Slay, Mathis, Quin and Levy need to stay healthy again and play really well even without Suh. That is the big question right now. How will they play without Suh. And will they stay healthy.

Fairley can be just as good and cheaper but it's a huge injury risk.

You can handle Dig/Bentley and Tulloch hurt.

 

[kdp1980]

Resigning Fairley is a must now, imo. Can we roll with Fairley/Caraun Reid possibly? Be nice if Reid stepped up this year and filled some of the void.

 

[LKP]

http://nfltraderumors.co/former-rams-dt-kendall-langford-visiting-with-lions-monday/

 

[johnny2x2x]

Let Suh go, we can sign 3 starters with his money. The bottom line is that with the contracts that CJ and Stafford have we essentially picked one of them over Suh.

Good franchising do not have half their salary cap wrapped up in 3 players.

 

[503]

ESPN was talking about using a "transition tag" on him. It allows us to match any offer he receives from another club but if we decide not to match, he walks with no compensation.

 

[LKP]

ESPN was talking about using a "transition tag" on him. It allows us to match any offer he receives from another club but if we decide not to match, he walks with no compensation.

That could work. But someone will offer something stupid I'm sure and we won't match and he'll just walk.

 

[brewer229]

ESPN was talking about using a "transition tag" on him. It allows us to match any offer he receives from another club but if we decide not to match, he walks with no compensation.

Not sure what the benefit would be. Still makes him an astronomical 26+ million cap hit in 2015 if no other deal is reached. Too much to risk.

 

[LKP]

Not sure what the benefit would be. Still makes him an astronomical 26+ million cap hit in 2015 if no other deal is reached. Too much to risk.

Yeah it's still 26 million. Might as well non exclusive franchise at that price. Thought transition had a lower cap hit but not so.

 

[brewer229]

Normally transition is cheaper.

Transition is average of top 10 at position as opposed to average of top 5 that the franchise tag is. However both have that "or 120% increase from last year, whichever is greater" portion. So with Suh it makes no difference.

I say offer him similar to the JJ watt deal, maybe convert roster bonus to signing bonus (20 million signing vs 10 million).

Cap hit would look like this: (2015 does not include 9.7 million in dead money)

2015 $6,575,567
2016 $13,969,000
2017 $14,500,000
2018 $14,500,000
2019 $15,000,000
2020 $13,000,000
2021 $15,500,000
2022 $17,500,000

Heck with the cap at 143 million you could move an extra five million into signing bonus (25 million total) and still keep cap hits reasonable for the best DT in the game. With this contract you could cut him in 2018 and take the 10 million cap hit (5 million in 2019) if his production drops off.

If he can get more than that, good luck to him. Maybe look at Browner or something as a CB. Don't want Mathis as #2...I can see the decline accelerating.

 

[LKP]

Normally transition is cheaper.

Transition is average of top 10 at position as opposed to average of top 5 that the franchise tag is. However both have that "or 120% increase from last year, whichever is greater" portion. So with Suh it makes no difference.

I say offer him similar to the JJ watt deal, maybe convert roster bonus to signing bonus (20 million signing vs 10 million).

Cap hit would look like this: (2015 does not include 9.7 million in dead money)

2015 $6,575,567
2016 $13,969,000
2017 $14,500,000
2018 $14,500,000
2019 $15,000,000
2020 $13,000,000
2021 $15,500,000
2022 $17,500,000

Heck with the cap at 143 million you could move an extra five million into signing bonus (25 million total) and still keep cap hits reasonable for the best DT in the game. With this contract you could cut him in 2018 and take the 10 million cap hit (5 million in 2019) if his production drops off.

If he can get more than that, good luck to him. Maybe look at Browner or something as a CB. Don't want Mathis as #2...I can see the decline accelerating.

Agreed 6 years 105 million for Suh. But now with him hitting free agency, he could get more than 105 million. He's leaving us to get 120 and a change of scenery (he gets plenty of exposure on Detroit) instead of 105 possibly. Or like tsmith said, Lions only offered him 90 million.

 

[tomdalton22]

Lions mis-managed this DT situation about as badly has you can. They knew both starters could be gone along with Mosely and they drafted a TE in the first round. What a bunch of idiots!

 

[inkfreq]

Lions mis-managed this DT situation about as badly has you can. They knew both starters could be gone along with Mosely and they drafted a TE in the first round. What a bunch of idiots!

Mismanaged is the exact right word for this.

They restructured him multiple times to the point his final year would cost them $22MM, making his tag cost an unreal $27MM. They avoided taking Aaron Donald in the draft. They declined the option on Fairley. They essentially painted themselves into a corner, and rather than waiting for the paint to dry, they walked through it so they have to start over.

Mayhew and Lewand did this to themselves. However, if they have any brains at all, they can pull out of this and still have a damned good defense next season.

Re-sign Fairley. Sign Knighton. You still have two first round picks on the line, and plenty of talent to make the system work, with plenty of money left over to bolster other positions.

 

[LKP]

Lions mis-managed this DT situation about as badly has you can. They knew both starters could be gone along with Mosely and they drafted a TE in the first round. What a bunch of idiots!

Donald just happened to work out. Could be BPA over Ebron (wasn't a given) but nobody knew he would be all pro year 1. Who knows how he would do on Detroit with just Ansah with Donald getting the doubles. He has Quin and Long getting the looks, though Long was hurt most of the year. William Hayes isn't bad either and Brockers is a 1st rounder next to him too. Got the Rams nowhere.

Let's see what the Lions do at DT in FA/draft and how Donald plays in year 2 as well as Ebron. Jumping the gun a bit.

That being said, we take a big hit talent wise losing Suh. Lions can't help it if Suh turned down 100 million if that is what was offered. Same thing with Avril. They offered 10 per. The players got greedy. Suh will get paid unlike Avril though.

 

[LKP]

Mismanaged is the exact right word for this.

They restructured him multiple times to the point his final year would cost them $22MM, making his tag cost an unreal $27MM. They avoided taking Aaron Donald in the draft. They declined the option on Fairley. They essentially painted themselves into a corner, and rather than waiting for the paint to dry, they walked through it so they have to start over.

Mayhew and Lewand did this to themselves. However, if they have any brains at all, they can pull out of this and still have a damned good defense next season.

Re-sign Fairley. Sign Knighton. You still have two first round picks on the line, and plenty of talent to make the system work, with plenty of money left over to bolster other positions.

Restructures got us good players that will help this year too. Fuck the old CBA.

Fairley didn't deserve the option. Plain and simple. We can get him at a lower cap number than 5.5 with a long term deal. Not a big deal.

Mosely can come back cheap.

 

[mhughes0021]

Dont overpay fairley. Pay a huge fatty 800k and switch 3-4. Spend on a rush lb and 6 moar weapons for stafford.

 

[jared]

The Lions certainly had really bad timing. The lowest point of the franchise happened to coincide with the end of a really bad CBA in terms of rookie deals.

The Lions drafted 2nd in '07, 1st in '09 and 2nd in '10. (Gosder Cherilus in '08, thanks Millen) The year after, the new CBA with normal rookie deals came into effect.

That part wasn't the fault of the front office. You have to sign the picks, and the contracts were ridiculous. That being said, the mismanagement since then has been mind blowing. The keep restructuring these deals until you are left with ridiculous cap numbers. 17 million for Suh - who probably won't be here next year. But they will keep deferring this money, it's how they do business. Leaves me scratching my head.

On a side note, did anybody see the minimum spend thing as it relates to this year's cap? If I am Jacksonville or Oakland, I would front load the heck out of the free agent contracts. Just sayin'

 

[LKP]

Dont overpay fairley. Pay a huge fatty 800k and switch 3-4. Spend on a rush lb and 6 moar weapons for stafford.

We would need some 3-4 DEs too. I don't know if Ansah/Webster could make the transition to OLB very quickly. Van Noy/Whitehead could be solid but not studs at OLB. Levy and Tulloch I'd be concerned too with only a nose in front of them. They would have to shed blocks a little better. Levy needs the room to run. Tulloch a little small for 3-4 ILB.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Normally transition is cheaper.

Transition is average of top 10 at position as opposed to average of top 5 that the franchise tag is. However both have that "or 120% increase from last year, whichever is greater" portion. So with Suh it makes no difference.

I say offer him similar to the JJ watt deal, maybe convert roster bonus to signing bonus (20 million signing vs 10 million).

Cap hit would look like this: (2015 does not include 9.7 million in dead money)

2015 $6,575,567
2016 $13,969,000
2017 $14,500,000
2018 $14,500,000
2019 $15,000,000
2020 $13,000,000
2021 $15,500,000
2022 $17,500,000

Heck with the cap at 143 million you could move an extra five million into signing bonus (25 million total) and still keep cap hits reasonable for the best DT in the game. With this contract you could cut him in 2018 and take the 10 million cap hit (5 million in 2019) if his production drops off.

If he can get more than that, good luck to him. Maybe look at Browner or something as a CB. Don't want Mathis as #2...I can see the decline accelerating.

Your last comment about Mathis is way off. He had a fantastic year in 2014. While I don't want to see him start more than one more year...he was awesome in 2014. To say you can see the decline means you must have thought of him on a Richard Sherman or Joe Haden level.

Here is a list of all FA corners and their 2014 grade from PFF.....look who checks in at #2.

Kareem Jackson 27 CB HST UFA 9.5
Rashean Mathis 35 CB DET UFA 9.1
Chris Culliver 27 CB SF UFA 8.5
Brandon Flowers 29 CB SD UFA 8.2
Sterling Moore 25 CB DAL UFA 6.0
Chris Cook 28 CB SF UFA 1.9
Brandon Harris 25 CB TEN UFA 1.7
Tramon Williams 32 CB GB UFA 1.6
Josh Thomas 26 CB DET UFA 1.6
Perrish Cox 28 CB SF UFA 1.2
Charles Tillman 34 CB CHI UFA 0.5
Antwon Blake 25 CB PIT RFA 0.3
Mike Harris 26 CB NYG RFA 0.3
Josh Gordy 28 CB IND UFA 0.2
Javier Arenas 27 CB ATL UFA 0.2
Patrick Robinson 27 CB NO UFA 0.1
Alan Ball 30 CB JAX UFA 0.1
Aaron Ross 32 CB BLT UFA 0
Teddy Williams 27 CB JAX RFA 0
Danny Gorrer 29 CB BLT UFA -0.1
Davon House 26 CB GB UFA -0.1
Antonio Cromartie31 CB ARZ UFA -0.2
Byron Maxwell 27 CB SEA UFA -0.2
Walter Thurmond 28 CB NYG UFA -0.5
Justin Rogers 27 CB WAS UFA -0.5
Jarrett Bush 31 CB GB UFA -1.2
Mike Jenkins 30 CB TB UFA -1.2
Tony Carter 29 CB DEN RFA -1.9
Terence Newman 36 CB CIN UFA -2.0
R.J. Stanford 27 CB MIA RFA -2.2
Sherrod Martin 30 CB JAX UFA -2.6
Brice McCain 28 CB PIT UFA -2.8
Sherrick McManis 27 CB CHI UFA -2.8
Chimdi Chekwa 26 CB OAK RFA -3.1
Darius Butler 29 CB IND UFA -3.2
Carlos Rogers 34 CB OAK UFA -3.6
Zackary Bowman 30 CB NYG UFA -4.3
James Dockery 26 CB CAR UFA -4.3
Tarell Brown 30 CB OAK UFA -4.6
Josh Wilson 30 CB ATL UFA -4.6
Kyle Wilson 28 CB NYJ UFA -4.6
Cassius Vaughn 27 CB DET UFA -5.9
Buster Skrine 26 CB CLV UFA -6.3
Will Blackmon 30 CB JAX CUT -6.9
Chris Owens 28 CB KC UFA -7.0
Jimmy Wilson 29 CB MIA UFA -7.4
Leonard Johnson 25 CB TB RFA -7.7
Phillip Adams 27 CB NYJ UFA -7.8
Robert McClain 27 CB ATL UFA -8.1
Bradley Fletcher 29 CB PHI UFA -8.4
Ike Taylor 35 CB PIT UFA -8.9
Antoine Cason 29 CB BLT UFA -9.7
Charles Godfrey 29 CB ATL UFA -10.4
Chykie Brown 28 CB NYG UFA -11.5
E.J. Biggers 28 CB WAS UFA -12.9
Shareece Wright 28 CB SD UFA -16.8