Surprise, surprise, surprise: More guns = more shootings.

[biggunsbob]

If I carried a weapon all the time I would go through a lot of TV's because of all the losses I have suffered with the Lions and other teams I root for.

 

[Spartanmack]

Wrong

The rest of the American people?

http://www.gallup.com/poll/178133/economy-government-top-election-issues-parties.aspx

Guns don't make the top 10.

LOL

 

[Thumb]

Really?

Every issue on that poll is the same for both sides, almost like.....someone picked the issues people were polled on!

That's not the same as asking each person what they believe the top 10 issues are, it's pick a dish from the menu we are offering.

Guns don't make the top 10 because they weren't one of the 13 options. Surprised you didn't fact check this first.

LOL indeed.

 

[Spartanmack]

Really?

Every issue on that poll is the same for both sides, almost like.....someone picked the issues people were polled on!

That's not the same as asking each person what they believe the top 10 issues are, it's pick a dish from the menu we are offering.

Guns don't make the top 10 because they weren't one of the 13 options. Surprised you didn't fact check this first.

LOL indeed.

I'm sorry, that should have said top 13, not top 10. And I didn't realize anyone would be so stupid as to think one of the top issues among voters would be left out of a survey of the most important issues to voters. But I forgot about you. Here you go:

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/gun-control-a-low-priority-issue-among-american-voters/

Here's the study..

http://www.gallup.com/poll/161813/f...link&utm_term=All Gallup Headlines - Politics

Next time do a little fact checking before you call me out for not fact checking.

 

[zyxt9]

Why do you concealed carry? Is there an actual reason based on life events?

Not sure about his specific circumstances; however, I know of many people who have CCW permits but only carry when they feel the situation is warranted.

Huh, what? Oh I can hear all the anti-gun nuts screaming about how retarded I am already.

Well, see...there is a segment in our society who do jobs, like bounty hunters, private investigators, lawyers who have to give notices in rough neighborhoods, etc., who prefer to carry when they feel it is on their best interest. Now some might say they are looking for trouble, but considering we don't hear news stories about these guys blasting people, it seems they feel more comfortable and confident when doing their jobs. Maybe it is wrong, but I know they should have the right.

Point being, not every CCW person has a gun on their person at all times, but they are able to when they deem it is in their interest. Not every CCW person is irresponsible and the fact so many millions have CCW ability and yet there is such a low percentage of incidents sure seems like the anti-gun nuts are making mountain ranges out of a grain of sand due to the MSM over-emphasizing any chance they get to pander to the anti-gun nuts

 

[Michchamp]

...

Huh, what? Oh I can hear all the anti-gun nuts screaming about how retarded I am already ...

zzzz... oh hey whatsup Retard?

 

[Thumb]

I'm sorry, that should have said top 13, not top 10. And I didn't realize anyone would be so stupid as to think one of the top issues among voters would be left out of a survey of the most important issues to voters. But I forgot about you. Here you go:

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/gun-control-a-low-priority-issue-among-american-voters/

Here's the study..

http://www.gallup.com/poll/161813/f...link&utm_term=All Gallup Headlines - Politics

Next time do a little fact checking before you call me out for not fact checking.

Oh I'm sorry Mr. I'll post a poll to prove guns are not a major issue when it was not a question asked by pollsters in the first place, and then complain people didn't do independent research aside from it.

LOL you are an amazing toolbag. :tup:

 

[Thumb]

I'm sorry, that should have said top 13, not top 10. And I didn't realize anyone would be so stupid as to think one of the top issues among voters would be left out of a survey of the most important issues to voters. But I forgot about you. Here you go:

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/gun-control-a-low-priority-issue-among-american-voters/

Here's the study..

http://www.gallup.com/poll/161813/f...link&utm_term=All Gallup Headlines - Politics

Next time do a little fact checking before you call me out for not fact checking.

LMFAO :lmao:

Also your (Gallup) links contradict each other. In the first, Taxes are among the top 13 issues, 9th for democrats, and 6th for republicans. But the other gallup poll you said was the study, has taxes dead last far below gun control, which you said was not a top 10 (or 13) issue.

What you should have done was only post the second poll where you posted the first, but you didn't, got called on it and now you're busier than a cat in a sandbox trying to cover shit up. And the harder you try, the bigger an idiot you look like.

But as to you original point; yes, most Americans probably don't think that guns are a major issue, mainly because we live in a culture that worships the gun. It's the star of moves, and tv and music videos. And sadly, plenty of people in this country believe it's more of a solution than a problem.

 

[Spartanmack]

LMFAO :lmao:

Also your (Gallup) links contradict each other. In the first, Taxes are among the top 13 issues, 9th for democrats, and 6th for republicans. But the other gallup poll you said was the study, has taxes dead last far below gun control, which you said was not a top 10 (or 13) issue.

What you should have done was only post the second poll where you posted the first, but you didn't, got called on it and now you're busier than a cat in a sandbox trying to cover shit up. And the harder you try, the bigger an idiot you look like.

But as to you original point; yes, most Americans probably don't think that guns are a major issue, mainly because we live in a culture that worships the gun. It's the star of moves, and tv and music videos. And sadly, plenty of people in this country believe it's more of a solution than a problem.

Are you really LYFAO? What difference does it make where taxes fall on the spectrum in studies taken more than a year apart? Do the surveys really contradict each other? Guns have never been a top issue for voters. Or do you just need to reframe the argument because you can't disprove the fact that guns aren't an important issue to voters? Are you still too stupid to realize the question wasn't asked because nobody cares about it? Are you out of nits to pick? Can I look forward to you capitulating and just responding with another stupid, childish meme?

 

[zyxt9]

zzzz... oh hey whatsup Retard?

Lol

Lets do some quick math. Over a period of 8 years there was at least 7,000,000 CCW and a whole 721 CCW related deaths (giving you the benefit of the doubt despite the already disprove accuracy of this being higher than actual)

That's 0.01% of CCWs involved in a CCW death. One hundredth of one percent over 8 years. And that is a maximum, since the number of people who have CCW is now considerably higher while those convicted of a crime in those cases is lower... so that is the max percentage.

Now lets analyze it using the reported 11 million CCW. There were 242 million adults in the US as of 2013, safe to assume that number has grown since, but its a usable number.

http://www.ask.com/government-politics/many-adults-live-usa-b830ecdfb6047660

So that's 4.5% (max) of the US adult population and of that over an 8 year span had a max involvement in deaths involving CCW of 0.01%.

We desperately need to stop these astronomic(cally low) numbers!!!!!

Edit: max is at 0.00045% of adult US population, way too high

 

[Michchamp]

Lol

Lets do some quick math. Over a period of 8 years there was at least 7,000,000 CCW and a whole 721 CCW related deaths (giving you the benefit of the doubt despite the already disprove accuracy of this being higher than actual)

That's 0.01% of CCWs involved in a CCW death. One hundredth of one percent over 8 years. And that is a maximum, since the number of people who have CCW is now considerably higher while those convicted of a crime in those cases is lower... so that is the max percentage.

Now lets analyze it using the reported 11 million CCW. There were 242 million adults in the US as of 2013, safe to assume that number has grown since, but its a usable number.

http://www.ask.com/government-politics/many-adults-live-usa-b830ecdfb6047660

So that's 4.5% (max) of the US adult population and of that over an 8 year span had a max involvement in deaths involving CCW of 0.01%.

We desperately need to stop these astronomic(cally low) numbers!!!!!

Edit: max is at 0.00045% of adult US population, way too high

you're missing the point.

I probably did not make it clear enough in post #1, so see post #25 for clarification.

 

[Gulo Blue]

you're missing the point.

I probably did not make it clear enough in post #1, so see post #25 for clarification.

Yeah Zyxt, this isn't about whether or or not CCW is a problem or a solution to anything, it's about MC stereotyping people as idiots.

 

[zyxt9]

There is nothing of relevance here...

well, kinda the point made by all the advocates of CCW is that it prevents crime, but of the hundreds of shootings cited, only 16 (so far) have been justified.

and the number of shootings by CCW holders will only grow, as the practice so far is relatively new. In Illinois, I think it was just last year or '13 you were allowed to apply.

so is CCW really necessary and ju'stified? If you want to thump your chest and pretend the "good guy with a gun" myth is real, it's probably better not to look at the numbers here, OR ask the loved ones of the other 706 people killed that question (though I'm sure the 16 justifiable homicide guys would tell you it was worth it, and how sweet it was to be Dirty Harry for a day. "Society" can go F themselves...)

Not only are you creating an unscientific projection based on your biased opinion, there is solid evidence that CCW has been advantageous overall. Maybe you are pissed that Chicago has benefitted so much...

The reports from Chicago indicate crime is down over 20% and murder is at a 56 year low.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ate-drops-as-concealed-carry-gun-pe/?page=all

But please, continue on with your biased, uneducated, and pretty well debunked opinion.

 

[zyxt9]

Yeah Zyxt, this isn't about whether or or not CCW is a problem or a solution to anything, it's about MC stereotyping people as idiots.

Best part is that CCW has increased so much while Obama has been President so he can't go on one of his bitch rants about how this is because of a Republican president. Lol

 

[Michchamp]

...


Not only are you creating an unscientific projection based on your biased opinion, there is solid evidence that CCW has been advantageous overall. ...

what?

no, the evidence here definitely doesn't show that, unless you think by mainly killing themselves or committing murder, CCW holders are deterring crime.

 

[zyxt9]

what?

no, the evidence here definitely doesn't show that, unless you think by mainly killing themselves or committing murder, CCW holders are deterring crime.

So the July study showing an increase in CCW up to 11.1 million licensed individuals, yet a 20% drop in violent crimes and murder during that increase means.... nothing to see here, move along?

Got it, how do you ever win a case in court with such simple to denounce statements like these? You know law, but your lack of supporting evidence to support your claims is highly suspect... so I'm hoping/guessing you are much more thorough in court. Either that or you are trolling this topic big time.

 

[Gulo Blue]

There aren't good numbers for total gun owners, but I found estimates in the 100M to 150M range which would mean there are 5.9-8.8 homicides per 100,000 gun owners and 21.2-31.9 deaths involving guns per 100,000 gun owners.

The 772 deaths from MC's link is an unknown fraction of the total CCW-related gun deaths, but if Zyxt's 11.1M number is right, that 772 would have to be less than a third of all the CCW deaths for CCW owners to be at regular gun owner level.

 

[zyxt9]

There aren't good numbers for total gun owners, but I found estimates in the 100M to 150M range which would mean there are 5.9-8.8 homicides per 100,000 gun owners and 21.2-31.9 deaths involving guns per 100,000 gun owners.

The 772 deaths from MC's link is an unknown fraction of the total CCW-related gun deaths, but if Zyxt's 11.1M number is right, that 772 would have to be less than a third of all the CCW deaths for CCW owners to be at regular gun owner level.

I got that number from the Washington Times link I think, but as I recall it was a quote from a gov't agency.

The other thing bugging me with Champ's data is it is over 8 years but does not provide any trending info over those 8 years. Have these CCW deaths increased, decreased, been constant and in what relation/equivalency to number of CCW permits? That should be provided, IMO, if trying to substantiate an increase in CCW deaths... yet no correlation is provided.

I really think this thread was nothing more than champ being more of a troll than usual, since all data is pointing toward CCW increases have had a positive reduction in violent crime and murders. Maybe that just means the tipping point hasn't been reached yet where two CCW individuals square off and shoot each other. I get that there can be a negative consequence on the long run, but Champ's data does nothing to support the claim that more CCWs means more death.

 

[Michchamp]

zzzzzzz...

 

[Gulo Blue]

I really think this thread was nothing more than champ being more of a troll than usual, since all data is pointing toward CCW increases have had a positive reduction in violent crime and murders.

My suspicion is that CCW does not have a dramatic impact either way. I don't think you can really argue that there's enough data to say it points towards anything.