The annual Way to early but not really 2021 Draft Thread!

[tomdalton22]

Nope. Lions would probably have zero wins. Those QBs without a run game, no defense and no WR separation, plus drops and 7 Prater misses, 0 wins for any of them. None. But whatever, 0 and 5-7 are same missed playoff result but way less fun to watch. And then doubt creeps in for the new GM and HC if you have only 0-3 wins

Quinn had around 40 million in cap space and added 10 new starters plus resign a slot WR and added depth. The new GM can add 10 new starters too this year plus depth with the right cuts and add better players (with some speed and ability to win with speed not just bull rush)

Flowers, Hand, maybe Collins, Walker, AO, Okudah, maybe Coleman are good enough to return. Then focus on fixing the rest of defense (5 starters needed plus depth), one Oline spot (Crosby/Vaitai battle for other spot) and 3 WR starters and a power back needed (like always).

Swift and KJ and Hock and Stafford can stay. Plus Ragnow, Decker, Jonah Jackson, Vaitai/Crosby/Stenberg on the Oline. Dump Daniels and draft a QB

so you finally see that the team that Quinn put together this year really sucks.

 

[mhughes0021]

https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2020...tafford-detroit-lions-end-of-career-too-early

May be dumb to trade Stafford and hamstring the new GM with just a rookie/huge QB hole

Veteran $10 mil. Rookie $5 mil. 2 QBs that can win 5 games and stil 5 - 10 mil cheaper than stafford. Wont have to worry about the rookies new cba deal for 4 - 5 years. Which would be $30+ mil for stafford.

 

[LKP]

so you finally see that the team that Quinn put together this year really sucks.

Combination of things. Injuries, bad coaching, some are cap cuts. Some are just people becoming FAs too. Some is a coaching change so the current players won't fit a new system most likely

Trufant, Williams and Shelton didn't work out for various reasons. Injuries were a big one for all 3 though with hamstring, shoulder and Shelton on IR. Throw in a Flowers injury and some other defensive injuries (Coleman, Walker, Okudah, Hand) and you got yourself a team that is can't succeed with injuries on top of the coaching problems and lackluster play. I don't think Trufant was ever healthy other first 3 Quarters of first game

Vaitai was a whiff plus a walking injury too. But was he a whiff due to injury. He might get a second year due to the dead money

Swift had some injuries too which hurt run game

Stafford thumb now rib

There is reasons why things failed besides just Patricia bad coach and talent. The talent wasn't all together ever. Injuries huge once again for 2020 considering who got hurt and how long

 

[tomdalton22]

Veteran $10 mil. Rookie $5 mil. 2 QBs that can win 5 games and stil 5 - 10 mil cheaper than stafford. Wont have to worry about the rookies new cba deal for 4 - 5 years. Which would be $30+ mil for stafford.

$30M+ is right...but probably closer to $40M in two years.

 

[503]

If you aren't planning on giving Matt another contract, then you trade him now. Start from scratch. They are going to be bad to mediocre for the next two years anyway. If you want to draft someone and let them sit behind a vet, just grab a vet off the scrap heap. Any one of these could start and lead the Lions to 5-7 wins, just like the current QB has done.

Mitch
Jimmy G (probably getting released)
Fitz
Tyrod Taylor
Dalton
Cam
Flacco
Glennon
Winston
Nick Mullins
Kyle Allen

I?ll take Stafford for what we?re paying him before I touch anyone of those QBs for $15mil.

The exception may be Cam and that would be if we get Harbaugh as the head coach. Cam/Harbaugh combo I wouldn?t mind.

 

[tomdalton22]

I?ll take Stafford for what we?re paying him before I touch anyone of those QBs for $15mil.

The exception may be Cam and that would be if we get Harbaugh as the head coach. Cam/Harbaugh combo I wouldn?t mind.

well, I doubt any of them would cost $15M. Most of those guys are in the $3M-10M range.

Last year
Cam $1M
Dalton $3M
Flacco $1.4
Winston $2.8
Glennon $800K
Mullins $750k


Any of those guys can lead them to a losing record.

 

[mhughes0021]

well, I doubt any of them would cost $15M. Most of those guys are in the $3M-10M range.

Last year
Cam $1M
Dalton $3M
Flacco $1.4
Winston $2.8
Glennon $800K
Mullins $750k


Any of those guys can lead them to a losing record.

Id give Winston $5mil and let him groom a rookie. Youd have to have local business looking to rebound have to put locks on all their crab legs.

 

[LKP]

you lose a first round pick taking a QB though so its an opportunity cost. Something you can use

They don't need Stafford for cap space. They can get 40 million in space from other shitty player cuts then change about 10 starters through FA, trades and draft and have Stafford with his 31 million cap number to dominate everyone

Stafford is 13th at 27 million per year (and other QBs will get more per year soon). He just happens to be on last 2 years of his deal and they restructured once. But the Lions can still have 40 million in space with that number. Maybe more if the cap reduction isn't as bad as orignally planned

 

[tomdalton22]

you lose a first round pick taking a QB though so its an opportunity cost. Something you can use

They don't need Stafford for cap space. They can get 40 million in space from other shitty player cuts then change about 10 starters through FA, trades and draft and have Stafford with his 31 million cap number to dominate everyone

Stafford is 13th at 27 million per year (and other QBs will get more per year soon). He just happens to be on last 2 years of his deal and they restructured once. But the Lions can still have 40 million in space with that number. Maybe more if the cap reduction isn't as bad as orignally planned

There are two ways to go. Keep Matt and try to put a team around him. That has been tried for 11+ years and hasn't been accomplished. Most years end very badly. The other is to cut bait and start over. I guess it depends on what the new GM wants to do. Keeping Matt almost guarantees that they will re-sign / extend him, most likely making him (on his next contract) the Miggy Cabrera of the Lions. An aging, overpaid player, that never wins anything.

 

[LKP]

There are two ways to go. Keep Matt and try to put a team around him. That has been tried for 11+ years and hasn't been accomplished. Most years end very badly. The other is to cut bait and start over. I guess it depends on what the new GM wants to do. Keeping Matt almost guarantees that they will re-sign / extend him, most likely making him (on his next contract) the Miggy Cabrera of the Lions. An aging, overpaid player, that never wins anything.

Stafford will be 33 in February. So 33 and 34 next 2 seasons. That is far from old or done for a QB. 5 more seasons would be through 37 years old which is probably the end then. Notice QBs now playing into late 30s and Brady is like 43.

But agree obviously the new GM decides. Will another GM agree he is worth building around

The problem wasn't they built around Stafford and Stafford failed. The problem is their building sucked for various reasons. Injury is one of them. Scheme is another for Quinn following what Patricia wanted, slow players on Dline and LB and safety and conservative offense/sticking to failed running game.

Then you have the Patricia effect on offense too. He wanted conservative, Bevell opens things up like 2019 and last 2 games and Stafford shines

Heck JBC looked good in 2015-2017 as OC under Caldwell. Patricia comes in and JBC looks like a crap OC (plus injuries to KJ, Marvin, no TE, Tate trade and Stafford back injury for 4 games)

 

[tomdalton22]

Stafford will be 33 in February. So 33 and 34 next 2 seasons. That is far from old or done for a QB. 5 more seasons would be through 37 years old which is probably the end then. Notice QBs now playing into late 30s and Brady is like 43.

I didn't mean the next two years...I meant the years on the extension.

 

[LKP]

I didn't mean the next two years...I meant the years on the extension.

Another 3 year extension would be the five years so 37 when he last plays for the Lions. And some QBS go past that. So yeah a 3 year extension would work and stretch the bonus out five years. Stafford is on a 3 year extension now

And 5 years is an eternity for NFL

 

[boogerlovejoy]

I?ll take Stafford for what we?re paying him before I touch anyone of those QBs for $15mil.

The exception may be Cam and that would be if we get Harbaugh as the head coach. Cam/Harbaugh combo I wouldn?t mind.

You had me right up until Cam. That guy is terrible. I'm sorry....but the only reason NE isnt 1-11 right now is because of Belicheck and that defense. Cam might be the single worst starter in the NFL right now.

 

[tomdalton22]

Another 3 year extension would be the five years so 37 when he last plays for the Lions. And some QBS go past that. So yeah a 3 year extension would work and stretch the bonus out five years. Stafford is on a 3 year extension now

And 5 years is an eternity for NFL

maybe

there are a few things to consider

1) he may not want to sign an extension
2) an extension will probably be 3 years, $100-120M
3) the new GM may not want him
4) his trade value is probably at an all time high. The new team gets a pretty cheap QB for 2 years.

I think everyone would be better off if he left. He would get a fresh start and so would the Lions.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

maybe

there are a few things to consider

1) he may not want to sign an extension
2) an extension will probably be 3 years, $100-120M
3) the new GM may not want him
4) his trade value is probably at an all time high. The new team gets a pretty cheap QB for 2 years.

I think everyone would be better off if he left. He would get a fresh start and so would the Lions.

It's hard to imagine a scenario where Stafford stays, is productive, and we get the talent around him to win. He might stay....but until the weapons improve and the defense has a complete makeover WITH depth.....the wins wont come.

And I do think that right now is the time to trade him if it's going to happen. He could sign a "team friendly" extension with his new team to reduce the cap numbers for the first 2 years. The Lions and their new GM and coach get another pick or two to build. It is a best case scenario for everyone involved I think.

And I don't want him to go. I am a Stafford fan......but it's time. BOTH sides are at fault in this broken relationship. Move on.

 

[dtroitlionsfan951]

Lol did someone just say any of those quarterbacks would lead the lions to 5-7 wins just as Matt has? Did anyone forget that we were WINLESS without Matthew Stanford last year? If it?s time to move on then fine, he?s getting up in age anyways. Probably only has one more run in him with a new coach anyways. But don?t forget he hasn?t even had kenny golladay for nearly the entire season and still hasn?t been too bad. I wouldn?t say it?s his best year, but all things considering he would have been better if he at least had a legit number 1 receiver. Dalton though? Has led a much more talented Dallas offense to less wins. Not really comparable.

 

[tomdalton22]

It's hard to imagine a scenario where Stafford stays, is productive, and we get the talent around him to win. He might stay....but until the weapons improve and the defense has a complete makeover WITH depth.....the wins wont come.

And I do think that right now is the time to trade him if it's going to happen. He could sign a "team friendly" extension with his new team to reduce the cap numbers for the first 2 years. The Lions and their new GM and coach get another pick or two to build. It is a best case scenario for everyone involved I think.

And I don't want him to go. I am a Stafford fan......but it's time. BOTH sides are at fault in this broken relationship. Move on.

His cap numbers will be very low for the first two years for the team acquiring him. If my math is correct, if the Lions trade him before June 1st, I think the team acquiring him will have a cap hit of $14M for 2021 and 20M for 2022. I think that's why the Lions might be able to get a good return for him. I think Indy has a cap hit of $46M between Rivers and Brissett this year. They will both be gone next year. They could acquire Matt and have a shit ton to spend on free agents if necessary.

 

[tomdalton22]

Lol did someone just say any of those quarterbacks would lead the lions to 5-7 wins just as Matt has? Did anyone forget that we were WINLESS without Matthew Stanford last year? If it’s time to move on then fine, he’s getting up in age anyways. Probably only has one more run in him with a new coach anyways. But don’t forget he hasn’t even had kenny golladay for nearly the entire season and still hasn’t been too bad. I wouldn’t say it’s his best year, but all things considering he would have been better if he at least had a legit number 1 receiver. Dalton though? Has led a much more talented Dallas offense to less wins. Not really comparable.

That was me. I said any of those vets could lead the Lions to 5-7 wins. I wasn't talking about this Lions team. I was talking about next years team. A team that should have a competent coaching staff and GM, some extra money to spend on free agents, and some extra draft capital due to the trade of Matt. Almost any of those QBs can get to 5 wins. And if they don't...who cares? The Lions need to start over...if they go 3-13 next year and didn't select a QB in this draft, they will be in position to draft a franchise QB in 2022.

 

[LKP]

Or keep Stafford
get a new HC/coaches with a good creative scheme on both sides of the ball
Add 10 new starters on defense/WR/Oline with 40-45 million they will have after cuts even with keeping Stafford via FA/draft/trades

Or 9 new starters and take a QB in Round 1 (Wilson or Lance or Trask) but keep Stafford too to actually start in 2021

And be in position for 9-11 wins in 2021. Though a really tough schedule (NFC North, AFC North, NFC West, home Eagles or Cowboys, at Panthers or Falcons)

And then if Stafford is good but team fails, then you trade him next offseason and help for building around that QB

But if a GM wants a complete fresh start now and create a hole at QB so be it. Depends on the haul we get for Stafford. Two 1sts at least or no deal

 

[Mitchrapp]

Not for nothing but anyone heard from Mr. Tony Balls?