The Official MSU vs ][V][ichigan Game Thread

[Spartanmack]

Repeating yourself now? Neat

So you've debunked Mchamp's theory. Yet you don't post an alternate explanation.

alternative explanation for what? If I disproved MC's theory that Dantonio's success was not legitimate, there is no "alternate" explanation - mc is wrong, Dantonio's success was legit and that's the end.

 

[hungry]

I have no idea what the 4th team is.

The theory that Champ presented is unchanged, though. He claims that Dantonio only was able to build his program, because other teams were down at the time. You disagree.

Present an alternate explanation and line it up with how MSU has now fallen on hard times.

 

[hungry]

alternative explanation for what? If I disproved MC's theory that Dantonio's success was not legitimate, there is no "alternate" explanation - mc is wrong, Dantonio's success was legit and that's the end.

But it's not the end. You claim that MSU has fallen on hard times. If MSU's success is legit. Explain the hard times. They still have their great coach.

 

[Michchamp]

the 4th team is the Indiana State Typos

 

[Spartanmack]

No one is doubting that Meyer took over a program in much better shape than Harbaugh did.

that was sarcasm - an exaggeration to make fun of the wildly incorrect statement you made but didn't acknowledge. By the way, did you know Urban Meyer has more wins against OSU than Harbaugh does?

 

[Spartanmack]

But it's not the end. You claim that MSU has fallen on hard times. If MSU's success is legit. Explain the hard times. They still have their great coach.

First of all, I've never said Dantonio is a great coach but are you trying to make the point that Dantonio's success is not legitimate because of what's going on now?

That could be dumber than saying it took Meyer a few years to rebuild OSU. You should be embarrassed for having asked it, but instead you're insisting on an answer. I don't know what to say, it's mind bottling.

 

[Spartanmack]

the 4th team is the Indiana State Typos

trolling, the last refuge of a moron.

 

[Spartanmack]

I have no idea what the 4th team is.

The theory that Champ presented is unchanged, though. He claims that Dantonio only was able to build his program, because other teams were down at the time. You disagree.

Present an alternate explanation and line it up with how MSU has now fallen on hard times.

you don't know who any of the teams are other than uofm - they're the only team that was consistently "down" when Dantonio was having success. The fourth team isn't the only mystery. There isn't an obvious second or third.

I didn't just disagree with mc, I proved him wrong, soundly. He hasn't offered a single argument to support his assertion or refuted any of the facts I presented.

 

[hungry]

First of all, I've never said Dantonio is a great coach but are you trying to make the point that Dantonio's success is not legitimate because of what's going on now?

That could be dumber than saying it took Meyer a few years to rebuild OSU. You should be embarrassed for having asked it, but instead you're insisting on an answer. I don't know what to say, it's mind bottling.

You didn't know it either. You had to look it up.

I see you have no theory on why MSU has fallen on hard times. Yes, If the success were legitimate, then he would've maintained it.

There is no debate, though. MSU now sucks and the program is in shambles. Good news, though. Dantonio has announced that he has no plans to retire at the end of the season. He'll be back and I'm sure that he'll right the ship.

 

[Spartanmack]

You didn't know it either. You had to look it up.

Come on man, are you really criticizing me for looking up and presenting facts to back up my arguments? I admit it - I didn't know Meyer's exact records year by year but I did know it didn't take him 3 years to rebuild. I also didn't know the exact number of B1G championship games or how many Wisconsin has played in, but I knew they played in more than half of them. I also didn't know how many years PSU has been in the B1G but I knew they didn't have many championships. I like to back up what I say with facts, so I actually looked them up and presented them.

Of course MC has presented none, but you're making an ass of yourself trying to defend his obviously wrong theory. I suppose I could just post my opinion mixed in with an intentional misspelling of Harbaugh - that seems to be the type of argument you find most persuasive.

I see you have no theory on why MSU has fallen on hard times. Yes, If the success were legitimate, then he would've maintained it.

I do have a theory for why MSU has fallen on hard times, we discuss it all the time on the MSU board. But it's not relevant or needed in order to prove what you and mc have said here is wrong. But since you keep asking, I think it's because he can't consistently recruit 4 and 5 star kids and the model of recruiting under the radar talent 3 stars or coaching up lesser talent isn't a sustainable model for consistent success. I think he's lost some really good assistants and replaced them with busts that he refuses to fire.There are a number of other things we can't know that can be contributing factors, but those seem like the biggest issues to me - it's why I think he is a good but not great coach. It's also possible that he's lost interest or the game has passed him by.

I also think it's asinine to say that a good coach's success isn't legitimate because it's not sustained.The Red Wings don't win the Cup every year, in fact right now they suck - but no one would say their success from the mid 90s to about '07 was because their competitors were "blowing up". It's an incorrect and obviously indefensible argument and you're acting as if saying it makes it a fact that needs to be disproved and then when it is disproved by facts, you say it wasn't disproved because his success wasn't sustained. That's just dumb. It's also got nothing to do with the actual argument - the fact that he's not having success now does nothing to prove the assertion that the only reason he had success was because his top 4 competitors were down.

There is no debate, though. MSU now sucks and the program is in shambles. Good news, though. Dantonio has announced that he has no plans to retire at the end of the season. He'll be back and I'm sure that he'll right the ship.

Finally you got something right - assuming you're being sarcastic about him righting the ship but given your track record, I don't want to assume anything.

 

[gotime909]

Why has Dontoni fallen on hard times?

Michigan under Harbaugh has won 46 games in the last 5 years and this year isn't over. That's a pretty good winning %. True, they haven't won any titles and they haven't beaten OSU, but MSU and quite a few other programs sure would like to have won that many games over the last 5 years.

Now, since that is only mediocre, surely that alone hasn't caused MSU to have fallen on hard times. Please enlighten us to why this has happened. They still have their great coach that built their program from nothing.

I'll take 36 wins, a big ten title and a trip to the college playoffs over 46 basically hollow wins in that span

 

[Spartanmack]

I'll take 36 wins, a big ten title and a trip to the college playoffs over 46 basically hollow wins in that span

it's probably worth pointing out that he's just 3-2 against an MSU team that's lost 60% of it's games, that doesn't seem like success but given what they've been through, you can understand why some uofm fans might think it is. If anything, Harbaugh is the guy whose "success" is more a factor of his opponent's troubles than his greatness.

 

[byco42]

No Sparty is never going to give Michigan no credit never. Sparty calls the 1997 NC a “half-title.” Never mind that MSU split its last NC with Alabama in 1965-66. And lost the ‘66 RB to UCLA, when the game did not figure in the UPI NC vote. MSU dropped from #1 to #2 in the AP poll. But we M fans still consider MSU as an NC. I doubt the converse would apply.

 

[byco42]

it's probably worth pointing out that he's just 3-2 against an MSU team that's lost 60% of it's games, that doesn't seem like success but given what they've been through, you can understand why some uofm fans might think it is. If anything, Harbaugh is the guy whose "success" is more a factor of his opponent's troubles than his greatness.

So, since 2008, MSU is 8-2 against generally bad M teams, too, and 2-3 against generally good ones. Or ?mediocre? to some Spartan fans.

 

[Spartanmack]

So, since 2008, MSU is 8-2 against generally bad M teams, too, and 2-3 against generally good ones. Or ?mediocre? to some Spartan fans.

It's been acknowledged that uofm was down when Dantonio was having success but i'd say it's a bit early to say uofm teams are generally good, given they haven't consistently beaten any teams that are generally good.

 

[byco42]

It's been acknowledged that uofm was down when Dantonio was having success but i'd say it's a bit early to say uofm teams are generally good, given they haven't consistently beaten any teams that are generally good.

Michigans?s respective SOS, 2015-2019: 30, 5, 21, 9 and 3.
MSU?s respective SOS, 2015-2019: 20, 34, 18, 22 and 11.

Michigan wins

 

[rumseyhouse77]

it's probably worth pointing out that he's just 3-2 against an MSU team that's lost 60% of it's games, that doesn't seem like success but given what they've been through, you can understand why some uofm fans might think it is. If anything, Harbaugh is the guy whose "success" is more a factor of his opponent's troubles than his greatness.

3 and 2 is not a bad start. Would have been 4 and 2 if not for a muffed punt and a lame brained Australian punter not just falling on the ball or throwing the ball out of bounds. Does Sparty think their team will tie it up next year? I don't. I see 4 and 2 next year, and then 5 and 2 the year after that.....

 

[Spartanmack]

No Sparty is never going to give Michigan no credit never. Sparty calls the 1997 NC a ?half-title.? Never mind that MSU split its last NC with Alabama in 1965-66. And lost the ?66 RB to UCLA, when the game did not figure in the UPI NC vote. MSU dropped from #1 to #2 in the AP poll. But we M fans still consider MSU as an NC. I doubt the converse would apply.

were they not co-champions? '66 happened before I was born and prior to the playoff, I never put a lot of stock in the national championship. It was never a big deal to me given how it was determined. I always felt if you won the B1G and then the Rose Bowl but a bunch of sports writers gave the NC to nd or usc or whoever they were in love with that year, so what?

 

[Spartanmack]

Michigans?s respective SOS, 2015-2019: 30, 5, 21, 9 and 3.
MSU?s respective SOS, 2015-2019: 20, 34, 18, 22 and 11.

Michigan wins

not sure what that has to with what we're discussing, but ok.

 

[Spartanmack]

3 and 2 is not a bad start. Would have been 4 and 2 if not for a muffed punt and a lame brained Australian punter not just falling on the ball or throwing the ball out of bounds. Does Sparty think their team will tie it up next year? I don't. I see 4 and 2 next year, and then 5 and 2 the year after that.....

"might" have been - we still get the ball inside the 40 with time on the clock and near game-winning FG range. But as I'm sure you recall, it wasn't.

no, I don't think we will win next year, but again that's got nothing to do with what we're talking about.