Tigers acquire Francisco Rodriguez from Brewers

[jared]

No one

You said that he improves us by 1 or 2 wins. So he is at least a slight upgrade. You say that we need to solve question marks in 2/3 of our bull pen. Are you advocating that they not try to improve the team? Are you down on the particular player? (yet you say you wanted no one) Or are you saying they should let the players we have play, and see what we have there? I am completely confused, which honestly isn't saying too much.

 

[Rebbiv]

You said that he improves us by 1 or 2 wins. So he is at least a slight upgrade. You say that we need to solve question marks in 2/3 of our bull pen. Are you advocating that they not try to improve the team? Are you down on the particular player? (yet you say you wanted no one) Or are you saying they should let the players we have play, and see what we have there? I am completely confused, which honestly isn't saying too much.

1. Most MLB teams develop their bullpens from within.

2. A majority of MLB relievers were once starters in their careers.



2015 Closers:

1. Roberto Osuna, 20-year old rookie with 20 saves. started 90% of his minor league games.

2. Andrew Miller, 30 year old. Began his career in DET and failed miserably as a starter. Became one of the most sought after relievers/closers. First time closer last year.

3. Zach Britton, 27 year old. Began career as starter and sucked. Has been the BAL closer the last 2 years and saved 73 games.

4. Bard Boxberger, 27 year old. First time closer last year and saved 41 games. Started 13 games in the minors and then immediately converted to a reliever. Was a "throw in" as part of a trade with SDP.

5. Koji Uehara, 40 year old. Began MLB career as a starter. Did not become a closer until 28 with BOS.

6. Greg Holland, 29 years old. Was a "so, so" minor league reliever. Became KCR closer August of 2012 season.

7. Glen Perkins, 32 years old. Failed starter. Been MIN closer for last 3 seasons.

8. Cody Allen, 26 years old. CLE closer last 2 seasons. Wasn't used as a closer in the minors.

9. David Robertson, 30 years old. Closer last 2 seasons. Never started or closed before that. Signed with CHW as FA and didn't change their save percentage by much.

10. Joakim Soria, 31 years old. Spent a few years to start in Mexican leagues as a starter. Didn't spend hardly any time in the minors before becoming a MLB closer.

11. Shawn Tolleson, 27 years old. First time MLB closer and saved 35 games. Was selected off waivers by TEX from LAD at age 25.

12. Luke Gregerson, 31 years old. First time MLB closer and saved 31 games. Signed as FA. $6 Mil in 2015.

13. Huston Street, 31 years old. $7 Mil in 2015. Was traded by SDP to LAA in July 2014.

14. Tom Wilhelmsen, 31 years old. Failed minor league starter.

15. Tyler Clippard, 30 years old. Failed minor league starter.

16. Jeurys Familia, 25 years old, Was a minor league starter. First time closer

17. Drew Storen, 27 years old.

18. A.J. Ramos, 28 years old. First time closing with 32 saves.

19. Jason Grilli, 39 years old. Failed minor league starter.

20. Jonathan Papelbon, 34 years old. $13 Mil in 2015. Failed minor league starter.

21.Trevor Rosenthal, 25 years old. First time closer in 2014. 93 saves last 2 seasons. Failed minor league starter.

22. Mark Melancon, 30 years old. 84 saves last 2 seasons. Was a "throw in" with a trade between BOS and PIT.

23. Hector Rondon, 27 years old. 59 saves last 2 seasons. Failed minor league starter.

24. Francisco Rodr?guez, 33 years old. Started first 42 of 46 games in minors

25. Aroldis Chapman, 27 years old. Was a starter in Cuba and first season in minors.

26. Kenley Jansen, 27 years old. 80 saves last 2 seasons.

27. Santiago Casilla, 34 years old. Saved 38 games in 2015. Began career as minor league starter. Was 29 when he signed minor league FA contract with SFG in 2010. Did not become closer until 2012.

28. Brad Ziegler, 36 years old. Saved 30 games. First full year closing. Failed minor league starter. Was a rookie at 28.

29. Craig Kimbrel, 27 years old. Saved 86 games in last 2 seasons. Traded last 2 off seasons.

30. John Axford, 32 years old. Saved 81 games for MIL from 2011-2012.


There aren't many (i.e. Axford, Ziegler) who I don't think would make the Tigers 1-2 wins better. But it is at what cost and what is the value.

There are others who have closed (Sergio Romo, Benoit, Rodney, Cishek, Addison Reed, Nathan, Rafeal Soriano) that weren't on the list above.

Successful organizations develop their pen from within. They fill it out with trades and minor in scale FA signings. And, it usually is the last piece to the puzzle. A lot of times the trades are deadline deals.

David Robertson, Joe Nathan and Jonthan Papelbon were the last three big name closers that were signed as Free Agents and their primary teams finished near or at the bottom in 2015. The Phillies never finished above .500 with Papelbon as the closer.

 

[jared]

1. Most MLB teams develop their bullpens from within.

2. A majority of MLB relievers were once starters in their careers.



2015 Closers:

1. Roberto Osuna, 20-year old rookie with 20 saves. started 90% of his minor league games.

2. Andrew Miller, 30 year old. Began his career in DET and failed miserably as a starter. Became one of the most sought after relievers/closers. First time closer last year.

3. Zach Britton, 27 year old. Began career as starter and sucked. Has been the BAL closer the last 2 years and saved 73 games.

4. Bard Boxberger, 27 year old. First time closer last year and saved 41 games. Started 13 games in the minors and then immediately converted to a reliever. Was a "throw in" as part of a trade with SDP.

5. Koji Uehara, 40 year old. Began MLB career as a starter. Did not become a closer until 28 with BOS.

6. Greg Holland, 29 years old. Was a "so, so" minor league reliever. Became KCR closer August of 2012 season.

7. Glen Perkins, 32 years old. Failed starter. Been MIN closer for last 3 seasons.

8. Cody Allen, 26 years old. CLE closer last 2 seasons. Wasn't used as a closer in the minors.

9. David Robertson, 30 years old. Closer last 2 seasons. Never started or closed before that. Signed with CHW as FA and didn't change their save percentage by much.

10. Joakim Soria, 31 years old. Spent a few years to start in Mexican leagues as a starter. Didn't spend hardly any time in the minors before becoming a MLB closer.

11. Shawn Tolleson, 27 years old. First time MLB closer and saved 35 games. Was selected off waivers by TEX from LAD at age 25.

12. Luke Gregerson, 31 years old. First time MLB closer and saved 31 games. Signed as FA. $6 Mil in 2015.

13. Huston Street, 31 years old. $7 Mil in 2015. Was traded by SDP to LAA in July 2014.

14. Tom Wilhelmsen, 31 years old. Failed minor league starter.

15. Tyler Clippard, 30 years old. Failed minor league starter.

16. Jeurys Familia, 25 years old, Was a minor league starter. First time closer

17. Drew Storen, 27 years old.

18. A.J. Ramos, 28 years old. First time closing with 32 saves.

19. Jason Grilli, 39 years old. Failed minor league starter.

20. Jonathan Papelbon, 34 years old. $13 Mil in 2015. Failed minor league starter.

21.Trevor Rosenthal, 25 years old. First time closer in 2014. 93 saves last 2 seasons. Failed minor league starter.

22. Mark Melancon, 30 years old. 84 saves last 2 seasons. Was a "throw in" with a trade between BOS and PIT.

23. Hector Rondon, 27 years old. 59 saves last 2 seasons. Failed minor league starter.

24. Francisco Rodr?guez, 33 years old. Started first 42 of 46 games in minors

25. Aroldis Chapman, 27 years old. Was a starter in Cuba and first season in minors.

26. Kenley Jansen, 27 years old. 80 saves last 2 seasons.

27. Santiago Casilla, 34 years old. Saved 38 games in 2015. Began career as minor league starter. Was 29 when he signed minor league FA contract with SFG in 2010. Did not become closer until 2012.

28. Brad Ziegler, 36 years old. Saved 30 games. First full year closing. Failed minor league starter. Was a rookie at 28.

29. Craig Kimbrel, 27 years old. Saved 86 games in last 2 seasons. Traded last 2 off seasons.

30. John Axford, 32 years old. Saved 81 games for MIL from 2011-2012.


There aren't many (i.e. Axford, Ziegler) who I don't think would make the Tigers 1-2 wins better. But it is at what cost and what is the value.

There are others who have closed (Sergio Romo, Benoit, Rodney, Cishek, Addison Reed, Nathan, Rafeal Soriano) that weren't on the list above.

Successful organizations develop their pen from within. They fill it out with trades and minor in scale FA signings. And, it usually is the last piece to the puzzle. A lot of times the trades are deadline deals.

David Robertson, Joe Nathan and Jonthan Papelbon were the last three big name closers that were signed as Free Agents and their primary teams finished near or at the bottom in 2015. The Phillies never finished above .500 with Papelbon as the closer.

Thanks, now I understand where you're coming from.

I guess this is what happens when the cupboard is bare. I fear that with the age of the owner, this organization is going to try to buy their way back to the top. We don't to reload, we need to rebuild. I just don't think it's going to turn out that way.

 

[biggunsbob]

When we we ever learn...I hope it works out but I fear we are just plugging 10 holes with 5 corks... I would much prefer to spend differently..

 

[sggatecl]

I mentally prepared myself before last season even started. I'm ready for the tank job, bring us a couple high picks and clear some of the shit payroll.

Moves like this scare me into thinking they're really going to go for an 'solid' 80 win season though.

 

[Rebbiv]

Since the beginning of 1998, the MLB has seen 46 closers combine for at least 73 saves over a two year period. Valverde and T. Jones being two of them. Yet, under DD and AA, the Tigers have now had 12 of those 46 under contract. Where has it got them?


Last Tiger Closer that was drafted by DET and saved at least 50 games for DET over two years?

 

[kalinecountry]

Since the beginning of 1998, the MLB has seen 46 closers combine for at least 73 saves over a two year period. Valverde and T. Jones being two of them. Yet, under DD and AA, the Tigers have now had 12 of those 46 under contract. Where has it got them?


Last Tiger Closer that was drafted by DET and saved at least 50 games for DET over two years?

I hope I'm wrong, and it is someone drafted after John Hiller.

 

[Rebbiv]

I hope I'm wrong, and it is someone drafted after John Hiller.

Unfortunately, John Hiller from 1973-1974.

 

[jdeb]

Jose Valverde II

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[Rebbiv]

Jose Valverde II

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He wasn't drafted by DET

 

[Mitchrapp]

No one when they learn to play and love baseball at a young age says "I want to be a RP." No on drafts a RP, they draft SP and hoping they can be SP. There's probably an exception..

Last Tiger Closer that was drafted by DET and saved at least 50 games for DET over two years? Consecutively, no one?

 

[Rebbiv]

No one when they learn to play and love baseball at a young age says "I want to be a RP." No on drafts a RP, they draft SP and hoping they can be SP. There's probably an exception..

Last Tiger Closer that was drafted by DET and saved at least 50 games for DET over two years? Consecutively, no one?

John Hiller

38 Saves of 42 SVO in 1973

13 Saves of 22 SVO in 1974

 

[Mitchrapp]

John Hiller

38 Saves of 42 SVO in 1973

13 Saves of 22 SVO in 1974

Ah, I knew that but I thought you meant since John Hiller. My Bad. Henneman was close though.. back to back 24 save seasons.

 

[Mitchrapp]

In fact Henneman was pretty good for Detroit. It's been a long time but looking back he had a nice 6-7 seasons here. Ate a lot of innings, and did well.

 

[jdeb]

He wasn't drafted by DET

He wasn't drafted by DET

I know, it was in response to the OP that you kind of hijacked

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