Tigers interested in + now with agreement in place for Joakim Soria

[Rebbiv]

Bullshit. :lmao:

Funny thing is....I don't even know LKP. Must post in another are of the forum.

 

[sggatecl]

Funny thing is....I don't even know LKP. Must post in another are of the forum.

He posts in the Lions forum. A number of us are convinced that he's trolling the board by acting like the ultimate Lions fan. My signature is just one of his many outlandish claims.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Was the value garbage or the player? Again, you are taking something out of context and trying to portrait me in some manner. Why? Just to justify yourself or validate yourself?

The value was garbage. We might be splitting hairs here. Just the like we didn't receive the right value for Fister and we gave up too much value for Soria. Is Soria garbage? Of course not.

Prior to the last two years, I had been defending Porcello as someone who was a valuable starting pitcher. Now that this is more evident, you don't see me proclaiming across this message board how right I was. I am not bringing up old posts where other posted that Porcello was garbage. And until right now, I hadn't even mentioned where I was vindicated by a players performance, good, bad, or indifferent.

You add more value to relievers and evidently so does DD. I do not. Got it. But, with that said, if DET doesn't make Soria the closer in would be lame. There is a possibility he could net us a compensation pick in a year or two. Nathan won't.

Just my impression (others can speak for themselves). But to say you are trying to get into DD's head just makes me laugh and not want to take you serious.

Rather than moving on, you bring up past scabs. Why? Especially if you truly meant you want to move on. I know what not to discuss with you going forward. I got it. I won't take another barb at you, ever. I probably won't engage in any discourse with you. Ever. Becuase you truly cannot move past this or show any respect back.

I didn't think they were scabs. I was referencing through your post to address your points. I figured it rude to ignore them, you posted about Ian again. I'm not trying to portray you in anyway. You are very vocal that you don't like Kinsler as a player. I didn't mean to imply you thought of him as that as a person. I feel like we got an All-Star second baseman for this critical season. I think that's cool.

I figure the reason we (all) discuss many of these players is so that as the future unfolds we can say "Hey you were right." "Or hey, you were wrong." - I'm already wrong on Fister - I don't care what Ray does. I like watching the Headley thing with more interest now. I don't take it all that seriously. Which is why I certainly don't want to offend you. I still like Chase Headley and I hope he does well in New York.

Look at your bold comment and tell me where I was that disrespectful? I stand by my attempt to look at the team from the tendencies I think DD has displayed to this point. To do that I have to remove some of the things I think would be right and go by his track record. I am a little surprised he made Thompson part of this trade.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

He posts in the Lions forum. A number of us are convinced that he's trolling the board by acting like the ultimate Lions fan. My signature is just one of his many outlandish claims.

I think he believes what he says. His statement is truthful in many ways. He just hasn't been Lionized to realize it doesn't matter. Maybe THIS is the year he's right. :cheers:

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

But, with that said, if DET doesn't make Soria the closer in would be lame. There is a possibility he could net us a compensation pick in a year or two. Nathan won't.

I think it is a delicate situation and will be interesting to watch. Soria has already said he'll do whatever they ask of him. This team has enough work for the three horses (four because I like Hardy - your boy early on) without anyone feeling overlooked.

I also think he HAS to pick up the option on Soria at the end of the season. I don't think he would have made this trade if that wasn't his intent. We won't know until December.

 

[spockmaster]

Judging by some of the comments from the presser, Soria might be used as a relief ace, but somehow that seems far too progressive for Ausmus' and DD's usual MOs.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Willing to put any names out there that you want?

Bastardo or Andrew Miller is my pick for another reliever.

Matt Joyce is the only Lefty bat I can see that could be available. Tampa Bay making a comeback sucks for the legitimate playoff teams. We needed to feed off of them.

Dexter Fowler? He is on the DL but should be starting a rehab assignment. Switch hitter and has a low batting average from the left side of the plate but sporting a .358 OBP as a LHB.

Other than that I don't see much help from the left side of the plate unless something creative happens. EZEKIEL CARRERA!!! The answer is already in the system. I'm not trolling Reb, I swear I'm not. I know you won't believe me but I think Ezekiel shoulda replaced Don Kelly awhile ago.

For BP help - I'd start with Bastardo or Benoit. Basically a solid back of the BP guy who can miss bats and give us more options. I wouldn't mind a flame thrower either, even if it is a LOOGY/ROOGY.

For a LHB - I'll have to think on that. A Matt Stairs type (not recommending Matt Stairs, just using a past example) bench bat would be okay. Maybe we could snag somebody like Ryan Howard for next to nothing by just eating a year of salary. Not sure I'd even want him nor that there is a spot for him, but a LHB w/ pop would be cool.

 

[spockmaster]

Bastardo would be my choice, with Miller 2nd if either of them could be had cheap enough. I'd love Benoit, but theres no way we could/should pay what the Padres would want.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Judging by some of the comments from the presser, Soria might be used as a relief ace, but somehow that seems far too progressive for Ausmus' and DD's usual MOs.

It just seems there are so many nights where Chamberlain or Nathan need a rest. More often than they get probably. This is the model for a bullpen in my opinion. Two closers and a setup guy. Sprinkle in two LOOGYs and a righty and you can have one of the best BP's for around 30M tops.

The worst part is they could have had this without giving up Thompson and Knebel had he just re-signed Benoit and still gotten Nathan and Chamberlain.

Alas, can't cry over traded prospects.

Bastardo or Miller. Tony Sipp has been tearing it up this season for Houston. I hated that guy in his rookie season for Cleveland. He has some amazing splits.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statsplits.aspx?playerid=8280&position=P&season=2014

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Tossing crap at the wall for rental LHBs: Carlos Pena, Ben Zobrist (switch), Adam Dunn, A.J Pierzynski.

 

[Thumb]

No to all but Zobrist. Dunn would probably help due to his ability to get o base plus his power, but we don't have a spot for him. Pena is washed up and AJ can fall into a garbage compactor for all I care.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Tossing crap at the wall for rental LHBs: Carlos Pena, Ben Zobrist (switch), Adam Dunn, A.J Pierzynski.

Carlos would be a fun story. Not sure I'd give up more than Patrick Leyland for him though.

Tampa Bay keeps talking about how much they like Zobrist and he has one more year. Their winning streak needs to end already so they can move their assets. I like Zobrist and so do many other teams. Would you give up the last of what the farm has? DD has said he's comfortable with Suarez but Zobrist would be good insurance.

Dunn. Playing the Jim Thome role off the bench? He has had 50 TPA as a PH and is hitting .256 career doing it with 4HR. He is 0 for 2 this season with 2 BB. I just don't think there is a position on the roster to carry him.

AJ might be considered too risky personality-wise even though he's been on two different WS winning teams. Maybe he has some good luck left.

Without getting an impact player it doesn't seem there would be that many AB's for them.

 

[Thumb]

Dunn. Playing the Jim Thome role off the bench? He has had 50 TPA as a PH and is hitting .256 career doing it with 4HR. He is 0 for 2 this season with 2 BB. I just don't think there is a position on the roster to carry him.

BA. is irrelevant. The underlined points out the important part.

Sure it's nice to have a guy get up off the bench cold and swat you a dinger, but that doesn't happen very often. But Dunn will give you some good AB's and very good OBP.

But I don't see him as a PH anyways. A guy like him has to play a lot or you waste his value. And before someone scoffs at the "value" part, please take the time to look at the total numbers and not just the useless ones like batting average and strikeouts.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

BA. is irrelevant. The underlined points out the important part.

Sure it's nice to have a guy get up off the bench cold and swat you a dinger, but that doesn't happen very often. But Dunn will give you some good AB's and very good OBP.

But I don't see him as a PH anyways. A guy like him has to play a lot or you waste his value. And before someone scoffs at the "value" part, please take the time to look at the total numbers and not just the useless ones like batting average and strikeouts.

It's not irrelevant it's his batting average when he's asked to PH. I posted what I agree is the important part. Would have been wrong for me not to qualify it. It just hasn't been the guy's role in his career and I don't think he would adapt well to it here. I think you and I agree completely in that he's not a prime candidate for LH PH.

Interesting to note that Jim Thome had 117 TPA as a PH and hit 4 HRs with a .212 BA and a .325 OBP in the role.

 

[Thumb]

It's not irrelevant it's his batting average when he's asked to PH. I posted what I agree is the important part. Would have been wrong for me not to qualify it. It just hasn't been the guy's role in his career and I don't think he would adapt well to it here. I think you and I agree completely in that he's not a prime candidate for LH PH.

I'm saying batting average is irrelevant. You want relevant? Post his OBP or OPS in the same sample.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

I'm saying batting average is irrelevant. You want relevant? Post his OBP or OPS in the same sample.

For you it isn't relevant for me it is. PH is a role where I want the guy to put the bat on the ball and get a hit. I'll agree a walk is just as good in that situation so I should post OBP as well. BA still has a place in my life when looking at players. It doesn't have to have a place in yours.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

No to all but Zobrist. Dunn would probably help due to his ability to get o base plus his power, but we don't have a spot for him. Pena is washed up and AJ can fall into a garbage compactor for all I care.

I believe all I listed are 2015 free agents on bad/borderline teams, so I'm viewing them as possible rentals that would come for junk or money.

Zobrist would be most useful for sure, but I'd be fine with us having someone like Dunn, Pena, or A.J. on the bench. I hate A.J. as do lots of other people, but he'd make some sense in that he could also catch which would be better than a 1B/DH type like Dunn or Pena. Dunn would be best for a walking HR threat. Pena is Pena... probably trash, but maybe he catches fire for a week and wins you a couple games with a big HR.

 

[kalinecountry]

What's your take? Is it too much?

I wanted Soria more than anyone else. I had Knebel gone in the trade to get a reliever so that wasn't anything but Thompson I didn't think DD would trade - he is all in for the season. I like it.

I left for the day right after my post.

I kind of wanted Soria, but also wanted them to get another established 8th inning + sometimes Closer as well. Benoit fits that, but the more I thought about it the more I thought it would be unlikely for DD to reacquire him....egg on his face and have a....... "Lucy you have alot of 'splaining to do" with the media.
Don't want papsmear, and really no part of Miller no matter how well he is pitching now, he is imo, one outing away from walking bases loaded with his delivery, another lefty would be good, better would be a righty reliever who has a 'pitch' to get lefty batters out with, or a lefty reliever with that pitch to throw to righty batters.
Just want one more reliever.
On paper, it seems like it's alot, and could be correct. Just that for now, Soria is lights out for a team that wants to and Has to Win this year or next, These kids are still maturing, and plenty of teams don't draft a closer with their 1st pick, and iirc some in the know said Thompson was a reach at his draft position by Tigers.

 

[kalinecountry]

http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2014/07/dave_dombrowski_detroit_tigers_12.html
Dave Dombrowski: Detroit Tigers open to further trades, focus likely to remain on bullpen.

http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2014/07/dave_dombrowski_indicates_obta.html
Dave Dombrowski indicates obtaining OF who hits left-handed, veteran SS are not high on priority list.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

I left for the day right after my post.

I kind of wanted Soria, but also wanted them to get another established 8th inning + sometimes Closer as well. Benoit fits that, but the more I thought about it the more I thought it would be unlikely for DD to reacquire him....egg on his face and have a....... "Lucy you have alot of 'splaining to do" with the media.
Don't want papsmear, and really no part of Miller no matter how well he is pitching now, he is imo, one outing away from walking bases loaded with his delivery, another lefty would be good, better would be a righty reliever who has a 'pitch' to get lefty batters out with, or a lefty reliever with that pitch to throw to righty batters.
Just want one more reliever.
On paper, it seems like it's alot, and could be correct. Just that for now, Soria is lights out for a team that wants to and Has to Win this year or next, These kids are still maturing, and plenty of teams don't draft a closer with their 1st pick, and iirc some in the know said Thompson was a reach at his draft position by Tigers.

I don't know that there are enough innings if they added Benoit or somebody like him. One more guy and I think you have squeezed Al2 out of the BP. Maybe it is time for him to move on anyway. He'd be perfect for San Diego.

I understand that sentiment on Miller. I'll admit I'd like to have Cabrera and the guy we traded to get him on the team. Seeing as Maybin is suspended there is only one to acquire.

Turley and Thompson. I will be watching both of them from here out (if Turley doesn't go next of course).