Welcome to Detroit Sports Forum!

By joining our community, you'll be able to connect with fellow fans that live and breathe Detroit sports just like you!

Get Started
  • If you are no longer able to access your account since our recent switch from vBulletin to XenForo, you may need to reset your password via email. If you no longer have access to the email attached to your account, please fill out our contact form and we will assist you ASAP. Thanks for your continued support of DSF.

Tigers interested in + now with agreement in place for Joakim Soria

LOL

So you want Ajax, flanked by JD and Davis/Dirks next year?

3 OF spots dude, JD can't play all 3 at the same time.

I would be okay with that. A lot will depend on what JD shows the last half of this season.

I'm on record as saying I don't care about 2015 and I won't backtrack. The 2014 team is stronger today. It makes me feel like a jackass for defending the Fister trade though - that trade sucked and I apologize to anyone that I disagreed with on that.
 
We keep throwing Joba out there at the pace he's on and he'll be throwing left handed come October.

I'm betting it will be

Joba- some 7th & 8th innings

Soria- 8th & Close

Nathan- Close

Come playoff time go with the hot hands

I agree with you here. I like the look of it.
 
Wouldn't be surprised if D.D. got another reliever (Bastardo-Phillies). I hope we do but what will D.D. have to give up? Losing Thompson hurt but we had to give up something.
 
Wouldn't be surprised if D.D. got another reliever (Bastardo-Phillies). I hope we do but what will D.D. have to give up? Losing Thompson hurt but we had to give up something.

The scuttlebutt is that in order to get Bastardo, you HAVE to take Papsmear too. I might kill DD if he gets Papsmear. I fucking despise him. We've already got one guy on the team I fucking despise in Nathan, I don't need another one.
 
The scuttlebutt is that in order to get Bastardo, you HAVE to take Papsmear too. I might kill DD if he gets Papsmear. I fucking despise him. We've already got one guy on the team I fucking despise in Nathan, I don't need another one.

+1 don't want papsmear either, I think he just blew one tonight as well.
 
+1 don't want papsmear either, I think he just blew one tonight as well.

Yep. His bubble is due to burst. His babip is 50 points lower than his career rate, and his HR/FB rate is less than a third of his career rate, meaning his xFIP is close to 4. If we traded for him, I'd be willing to bet his bubble would burst in the playoffs, because that'd be just our luck.
 
We keep throwing Joba out there at the pace he's on and he'll be throwing left handed come October.

The funny thing is people still rage every time he's not brought in or doesn't pitch 2 innings. Given his injury history I'm amazed he's made it this far.
 
How many ways do you need to told that water is wet?

I called Headley a light-hitting 3rd baseman (and posted this season and last season's slash lines). The retort was -He's a great fielder here are his stats- (which he totally is) and that he has a good walk rate (which he does). It doesn't change the fact that he hits for little power, little average and strikes out a lot. Add to that a below average ability on the basepaths and you have a servicable player but not somebody that appears ready for the 2015 all-star game.

Stats are a fun part of baseball. The game still allows for intuition and perspective after all the numbers are drilled down. I'm appreciative of the effort but there will always be a subjective element that statistics won't illuminate. Otherwise Oakland would have a few WS championships.

Do YOU think Headley will be a top-5 3rd baseman in 2015?

If Headley has a .800 OPS next year I will say I was wrong and good call. I'll even go down to a modest .775 and give credit. He is a less than robust .649 OPS this season. (Avila is a .713 OPS this season).


You still have never recognized the fact that he hit in a extreme pitcher's park and pitcher park friendly division. Add on to the fact that I have posted and it is widely known that he was hurt last year and at the beginning of this year. I firmly believe you avoid evidence posted that contradict your position.

I mention he is a top 10 3B and WHEN HEALTHY, he is a top 5. Yet, you omit the part of being healthy and fixate on the Top 5 part.

I have spent well over 40 years studying and understanding baseball statistics. And yet, somehow, according to you, what I do is all wrong and that I "Cherry-Pick". I should just be using my eyes to observe the players
 
Last edited:
You still have never recognized the fact that he hits in a extreme pitcher's park and pitcher park friendly division. Add on to the fact that I have posted and it is widely known that he was hurt last year and at the beginning of this year. I firmly believe you avoid evidence posted that contradict your position.

I mention he is a top 10 3B and WHEN HEALTHY, he is a top 5. Yet, you omit the part of being healthy and fixate on the Top 5 part.

I have spent well over 40 years studying and understanding baseball statistics. And yet, somehow, according to you, what I do is all wrong and that I "Cherry-Pick". I should just be using my eyes to observe the players

Lots of playeers are hurt and play through. I only evaluate on what they do and not what they might do if things were different. I haven't avoided it at all, I have gone out of my way to post that your stance is that he has been injured and thus declined. I think you avoid reading anything that you can't take offense with.

I don't say what you do is 'all' wrong - in the post you have quoted I said that I appreciate the effort (willful ignornace again?) You put in the numbers. I like you actually because you take a position and then work to support it. I don't belittle or demean your numbers. I apologize if I've been unduly harsh on the "cherry picking" - you load your words and that pisses me off when I'm trying to discuss a topic. I retaliate when I shouldn't.

There are enough of my posts in this thread that indicate you feel Headley is top 5 when healthy. I will say again that is your position. Hopefully that is enough. I say even when healthy he doesn't hit well enough for the position and I posted the numbers as you requested. I have substantiated my position to my satisfaction. Not much to do but let it play out.

I have 35 years studying stats from all sports also. From my first Street and Smith to present day. I am always looking for outliers because the one year Wade Boggs hit 20 home runs I had a bet he wouldn't hit more than 10.

There is a middle ground between thinking you know exactly what will happen because you read some stats and closing your eyes and guessing. I think you know that but enjoy painting it otherwise which is your demeanor here. It's all good. I got no animosity towards you or anyone.
 
$7 M team option for Soria next year.

$8 Million if he gets 55 games finished this year. He currently stands at 32.


2015 option increases by $1M to $8M and buyout increases by $0.25M to $0.75M with 55 GF in 2014 OR 100 GF in 2013-14

He only had 9 GF in 2013. So getting 100 for 2013-2041 ins't possible. But certainly if he becomes the closer, than 55 GF this is reachable.
 
Lots of playeers are hurt and play through. I only evaluate on what they do and not what they might do if things were different. I haven't avoided it at all, I have gone out of my way to post that your stance is that he has been injured and thus declined. I think you avoid reading anything that you can't take offense with.

I don't say what you do is 'all' wrong - in the post you have quoted I said that I appreciate the effort (willful ignornace again?) You put in the numbers. I like you actually because you take a position and then work to support it. I don't belittle or demean your numbers. I apologize if I've been unduly harsh on the "cherry picking" - you load your words and that pisses me off when I'm trying to discuss a topic. I retaliate when I shouldn't.

There are enough of my posts in this thread that indicate you feel Headley is top 5 when healthy. I will say again that is your position. Hopefully that is enough. I say even when healthy he doesn't hit well enough for the position and I posted the numbers as you requested. I have substantiated my position to my satisfaction. Not much to do but let it play out.

I have 35 years studying stats from all sports also. From my first Street and Smith to present day. I am always looking for outliers because the one year Wade Boggs hit 20 home runs I had a bet he wouldn't hit more than 10.

There is a middle ground between thinking you know exactly what will happen because you read some stats and closing your eyes and guessing. I think you know that but enjoy painting it otherwise which is your demeanor here. It's all good. I got no animosity towards you or anyone.

Stats is a historical accounting of what happened. You choose to use his total stats from the 2 years he is hurt. It does not mitigate anything and it just re-enforces your position.

The "wait and see" game can be done on anything. Even the "overpaying" for Soria. But certain stats can be predictive, but one with 35 years of extensive knowledge already knows this. And because they are predictive, we can make an "educated guess". Now, are these guesses 100% accurate. How course not. But their are 100 times more accurate than "subjective observation".

Vision is the one sense that can be "fooled". Just ask any illusionist or magian. In addition, "biases" effect or perception of that just happened. 10 people can watch the same car accident. Police will interview the witnesses and get 10 variations of the story. Are any of them lying? Of course not. They all describe what they think they saw.

In baseball, two scouts can watch the same game/players and come away with two diverse reports. It is a matter of perspective and biases.

In sabermetrics, sample size matters. 1 season of data doesn't prove anything, except if it was an outlier. 3 seasons worth of data generally normalizes a few biases. Away stats helps eliminate home park biases. OPS, both for pitcher and hitters, is a straight forward, readily accessible stat that can be utilized. Run Created or any other linear weight stat would probably be better, but they aren't always readily available.

Now, if I show 3 years worth of data, and it shows Headley is #8 in Away OPS during that timeframe and he was hurt during one of those years, or maybe even two of those years, then what is wrong with claiming he is a top 10 3B and when HEALTHY, a top 5?

Yet, you are constantly asserting that he isn't even a top 10 offensive 3B. You want to isolate to last year's and the first half of this year (the period he has struggled with injuries) to make your point. And you want to use his biased home park statistics as well.

Maybe I am just experiencing WILLFUL IGNORANCE!
 
$8 Million if he gets 55 games finished this year. He currently stands at 32.


2015 option increases by $1M to $8M and buyout increases by $0.25M to $0.75M with 55 GF in 2014 OR 100 GF in 2013-14

He only had 9 GF in 2013. So getting 100 for 2013-2041 ins't possible. But certainly if he becomes the closer, than 55 GF this is reachable.
Simple solution, just put him on the dl until the playoffs
 
Not gonna quote your whole post as this whole conversation is off-topic. The numbers I posted included his career year. I added some after that were just the last two seasons. I find relevance and you don't. Alex Avila has comparable numbers to Chase (better in some areas) and some (not saying you) think he is horrible.

Not sure why you want to beat the dead horse. I am not going to declare Chase Headley a top 10 3b until he backs it up in the here and now. I don't know why it matters to you so much. It seems you are only happy if people tell you that you're correct and we are sorry for thinking about disagreeing with you. Not gonna happen because I still say he's a light-hitting 3rd baseman. I like him as a player too. I was on the bandwagon early in 2012, even won a bet because of him. I expected him to be more than he has been.

Maybe he will realize the potential you see. Or maybe he is one of those guys who is plagued by nagging injuries. With data available it is a 50/50 proposition to me. Like I say. If he has a :775 OPS next season I will humbly concede that you were correct. Will you do the same thing if Kinsler
finishes this season with a .775 OPS?

I know you're big on home and away stats. I'm not. Either a guy can hit where the other team isn't or he can't. Players have 81 games away from home so ISO and Slugging work themselves out. Just because we have differing philosophies doesn't mean one of us has to be an idiot for our approaches to be rooted in logic.
 
Two of the Tigers better prospects gone to help fix DD's mistake of signing Nathan. Signing him was over kill IMO
 
I like the trade but this will look bad if they don't win it all. 2 prospects who I believe will perform in the show.
 
Two of the Tigers better prospects gone to help fix DD's mistake of signing Nathan. Signing him was over kill IMO

I liked the Nathan signing. I think the mistake was not bringing back Benoit at 7M for the 8th. He is now paying Soria that same money for the same role.
 
Back
Top